Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Tuesday, 6 November 2018

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills

School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills

3:30 pm

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

The Minister said he is going to pursue Western Building Systems. I encouraged him to do that when I met him last week and I still encourage him to do that. It is very important. I previously expressed concerns that it seems to have taken three years simply to issue proceedings in court in regard to issues with fire safety certificates. I am concerned about that as well the Statute of Limitations and time limits. Will the Minister also be pursuing the other professionals involved? I refer to architects, those who completed certificates of compliance and those who acted on the Department's behalf as well. Will the Minister be dealing with other people?

At this committee last year, the then Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Bruton, decided very suddenly to start to appoint clerks of works on Department school building projects. Will the Minister give us an update as to how that scheme has been rolled out by the Department? Are there clerks of works at every major building project which the Department is overseeing at the moment? Will the Minister also let me know the cost of the fire safety audits that seem to have taken place at the start of this? They were announced last year.

Outside of Western Building Systems, in regard to other schools where there are applications for emergency works, are there many outstanding applications at the moment that concern fire safety and are there many that concern structural issues? I refer to those in the Department now. I also want to ask about the certificates of completion. I want the Minister to be as clear as possible as to what their purpose is from the Department's point of view, whether before or after 2014. As I understand it, in certificates of substantial completion, it is the case that the Department, as the purchaser, relies on certificates of compliance that have been issued. There is also, however, a defects list that the Department would have engaged people to complete. Is the Minister satisfied with the work done on behalf of the Department in dealing with those defects?

I am not sure how useful this is, but a package of documents came into my possession today and it included certificates of substantial completion for many of the schools. Somebody sent me the snag list from a number of years ago for Ardgillan college. I hope the Minister can answer this question. There were some issues there. Toilets, latch way harnesses, toilet roll holders, fire extinguishers, boiler houses and gas meter cages were some of the items listed.

They are relatively minor items, apart from the fire safety equipment. Is the Minister dissatisfied by the fact that major issues were not revealed at that time in terms of who the Department employed to deal with the defects or would he say these major defects simply would not be part of this particular process?

Is the Department engaging with local authorities, which are the building control authorities, on proceedings they might issue? Is any local authority investigating this matter to the Minister's knowledge? As I understand it, breaches of building control regulations carry fines and potential prison sentences. Is this something the Minister has pursued with the Department, particularly in the context of Ardgillan community college and whether it is possible within the time limits set out in building control regulations? The truth is that what was discovered at Ardgillan community college sent a shiver down the nation's spine last week. There is no doubt about that. The same applies to some of the other schools. Quite honestly, the same applies to any school where remedial works had to be carried out. It implies a breach of building control regulations and does imply criminal sanction. Is this something into which the Minister has looked? I might come back with some follow-up questions. I have asked some major questions.

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