Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

If it is not a straightforward thing to do, that flags it is impossible to do and that we can never do it and yet everybody else does it. How have we come to a situation where we have fewer hospital beds per 1,000 population than most European countries? Experts, including medical experts, have told us that we have too many hospital beds and we have been told that for a number of years. The Chairman knows that as well as I do. I remember being involved in the initial stages of planning for a hospital some years ago. I thought at the time that we did not need beds given the expert opinion that was made available. I had to make a decision that that was not going to work and I was right.

It is all very well telling mere Dáil Deputies that this is not comparing like with like, that it is apples and oranges and that it is very difficult to solve it. As long as we keep on that route, we will never provide a health service that is efficient, effective and accessible. We need to drill down into the issues, find out where the problem exists, make the comparisons and solve the issues.

What is regularly trotted out is the demographics and the significant increase in the number of older people. I am not sensitive about this topic, although the Chairman may think I am. Nobody ever mentions the significant increase in the younger population, which is at least comparable and counter-balances the increase in the older population. If somebody tells me there is no increase in the young population, that person is wrong. One does not have to go into the statistics to find out that information because it is readily available. We have a growing young population because of the cohort of people who returned to this country or came into the country. They are counter-balancing in a positive way the expenditure on health.

Somebody needs to tell us what the situation is, instead of making excuses and saying this is the cause of all our problems. It is not. Drugs are an issue that needs to be dealt with effectively now. On the question on the State Claims Agency claims, I do not accept the notion that we cannot compare like with like in that regard. It is quite simple to check with the neighbouring jurisdictions. There are norms and averages. We can get those averages, even if we have to do it ourselves, and find out exactly how they have lower costs than we have. What is the cause of the problem? Deputy O'Connell referred to that matter as well.

I note the growth in staff numbers following the lifting of the moratorium. If we are to get to where we can provide a reasonable health service, we have to pay staff and so on. We accept all that but there are other issues that are virtually a diversionary tactic in that they just come up. I remember them from when I was on a health board years ago. The same old story would come up time and again. I do not accept that.

My final point is on emergency residential places. I will never understand why it is more efficient and effective to demolish a building. Over the past number of years several older buildings were demolished in this city and replaced with newer buildings. These new buildings are no more efficient and, in some case, the structures are worse.

Let us not forget that a building was leased for the Department of Health for a period of time during which it was not occupied. I know how that can happen but we are back to the old story of projections. It should not happen. If anybody in business rented a building in anticipation of being in it by a particular time, that is the only time for which the person will pay. That person will not rent a building and keep it until such time as her or she has enough money to pay for it. It does not work that way. We need to break down the barriers that are there.

I believe we are told what happens to be available at the time and we walk away. At a certain time, one gets tired of walking away. If one has been around for a long time, one remembers all these things and hearing the same points made. One asks oneself where did I hear that before? Why do I not want to hear it again? It is because it does not work and it does not tally. The health service is an organisation which has a significant budget and we need to deal with such situations as a matter of urgency.