Mr. Stephen Mulvany:

I will take the Senator's questions in reverse order. On the figure of €37 million in savings, when I refer to community healthcare organisations and hospital groups, I mean the HSE. The community health care organisations are part of the statutory HSE, of which hospital groups are also part, albeit 16 involve large voluntary hospitals which are funded under section 38. The figure of €37 million is across the HSE and some of it will also be across certain voluntary organisations.

With reference to administration, planning and ICT, the HSE has set out an e-health Ireland strategy which is very clear on how to develop and invest in both clinical and non-clinical ICT, with a view to obtaining all of the returns from it, including efficiencies. That plan is in place and we are making progress with the Department's assistance in seeking to have it funded. It was announced not that long ago that there would be an EIB loan to assist in its funding. There is a long-term ICT plan. We also prepare three-year corporate plans. It is not just about relying on the annual service plan, albeit that is also in place. It is probably fair to say we do not yet have a single overarching plan for the workforce setting out specifically where we want to go with administration and management staff. That is something that needs to be closed. However, I do not accept that it is simply a matter of he who shouts the loudest. We must remember that administrative staff categories include everyone from the grade 3 personnel one meets at reception in one's clinic all the way up to people at my level and some staff we would otherwise count as technical or professional, including engineers, HR staff and accountants. It is not just all senior general managers, albeit the system, clearly, must be managed.