John Dolan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank our guests for attending and for engaging with the committee. I would also like to say a word of appreciation because a number of things have happened for people with disabilities, although there is much more that must happen. The increase in the parking fine for people wrongly using disabled parking bays has been a great fillip and morale boost. Much more can be done there as well but credit where credit is due. The appointment of approximately half a dozen people with disabilities to a slew of public transport boards is a move in the right direction. That is also welcome.

I want to start, believe it or not, with Article 9 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of People with Disabilities. At the start of Article 9 it is stated that parties - that means Ireland since April - to the convention "shall take appropriate measures to ensure to persons with disabilities access, on an equal basis with others, to the physical environment, to transportation, to information and communications ... both in urban and in rural areas". We are referring, in particular, to rural Ireland here today. The article also states, "These measures, which shall include the identification and elimination of obstacles and barriers to accessibility, shall apply to [a slew of things we will not go into]". On 19 April last, Ireland lodged the papers with the United Nations in New York. On 19 April 2020, two years from now, Ireland will make its first report on progress made. Does the Department have an implementation plan to make Article 9 accessibility happen? What is the Department's intention? What does it hope to be reporting in respect of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of People with Disabilities in April 2020?

We mentioned the rural aspects. Approximately 37% of the population lives in rural Ireland. That is 228,000 people with disabilities and their families. I state that to make it clear. The NTA is mentioned in the Department's presentation. I will say again - sadly and clearly - that I have no confidence in the NTA. That is based on what I have seen of its understanding of and empathy with the issue of providing inclusive transport solutions for people with disabilities. My evidence comes from March 2017, when the NTA advised the Minister - and the rest of us - during the Bus Éireann strike. Three sets of Bus Éireann vehicles were being taken off of three routes, leaving three operators with licences to operate those routes. The NTA stated at the time that there would be no diminution in service. It was interesting that it could say this when all of the buses left on the routes were not wheelchair accessible. What was even worse - and this goes back to points raised by colleagues to my left - was that they were not required to be accessible. I refer to licences that are being given to bus companies. I am not getting into public versus private, I am just talking about Joe Bloggs who is in a wheelchair or who has a mobility impairment. He does not or should not need to know the logo on the bus to be able to get the bus from Clonmel to Dublin and out to the airport. That was one of the routes involved.

The other instance to which I wish to refer occurred on 18 July last when representatives from the NTA were before the committee. I asked about BusConnects. The eye of that storm at the moment is in Dublin but, as has been said, it is due to go nationwide in the fullness of time. There was no engagement with people with disabilities or their representative organisations until two days before the meeting in question. That engagement happened because a person with a disability on a national disability inclusion strategy committee pushed for it. The horse was well gone by then. I am not sure if it was 60 or 80 buses, I forget the exact number, but they had been ordered from Wrightbus in Ballymena, delivered, paid for and liveried. Everything had been done. The day before the meeting, people with disabilities, visual impairments, physical impairments and hearing impairments got their first chance to look at those buses and point out a number of things. The committee was told that some of the things could be resolved but the solutions were being retrofitted to something that should already have been done. There has been a disability access committee in the Department since the 1980s. This is not new. Some 20 years ago, 100 buses came into the fleet thanks to an Exchequer grant of £1.5 million. That was unprecedented at the time. Not one of those buses was accessible. Now, 20 years later, the same thing is happening. The consultant appointed to the BusConnects project was not asked by the Department, the NTA or whomever, if he or she had any experience of providing accessible public transport systems.

Those are my reasons for saying that I have no confidence in the NTA. I do not see any change. Such an important body was being dismissive, I will use that term, because it could not even indicate or provide an estimate regarding the number of disabled people with mobility impairments who currently have a single bus journey from start to finish but who will have to take a second bus as a result of BusConnects being put in place. I refer to the number of people who would have to get off one bus and onto a second. We could ask the drivers on the routes and I am sure they could nearly tell us passengers' names and where they get on and off. It is quite dismissive of the whole project Ireland has taken on. I would be interested in any comment the Department has to make on that point.

Wheelchair accessibility is available on a number of Bus Éireann coaches on the Expressway regional service. I will qualify that by saying that it is when the services operate the way they should and to the 24-hour rule, etc. The number of routes is limited, however, due to constraints with accessible bus stops. This has already been touched on. The introduction of additional fully accessible routes is dependent on the production of suitably accessible bus stops. Each wheelchair-accessible coach has one wheelchair space which must be booked 24 hours in advance using the reservation system. There are still routinely issues. It sticks in my craw that members of the public still have to give 24 hours' notice to use a public bus or train but that is the case. When they do that, they still have the fingers on both hands crossed that the bus, when it gets there, will be accessible. Even if they get to where they are going, they then have a bigger plight wondering if they will get home. That is reality for people with mobility impairments. There are many different issues but the coaches are now accessible. The figure of 86% was mentioned. There is still the issue of the bus stops along the routes. I will return to that in a moment.

There are six Expressway routes that are wheelchair accessible. The routes in question are Dublin to Belfast, Dublin to Waterford, Dublin to Limerick, Dublin to Galway, Dublin to Letterkenny and Waterford to Cork.

I want to start with, believe or not,

All but one of the seven public service obligation, PSO, routes serve Dublin and the Dublin hinterland. The one that does not runs from Galway to Ballina. I refer to the routes from Navan to Dublin, Navan to DCU, Trim to Dublin, Drogheda to Blanchardstown and Dublin to Kells. There is a strong pull into and around Dublin city. There is an equity issue here, and other committee members have raised that in other ways. Whether it is in regard to people with disabilities or others, there is a huge drag in and around Dublin. I can understand that, but those of us involved in public policy have to create a counter-drag running the other way so that people can move around.

The Chair raised the N24. We need the Saw Doctors to do something about the N25 and the N24. I know the N24 well. I come from Tipperary town. There was a big protest in Tipperary at the weekend. A greater number of people than the town's population came out and protested about jobs and other issues. The state of roads and the lack of a bypass were some of those issues. Public transport is not just about transport. It is about people's social and economic lives. On the outskirts of that town, there is a rail junction, Limerick Junction, which horizontally and vertically links Dublin, Cork, Limerick, the area beyond it and Waterford. That town is dying on its knees. The Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport and agencies under its aegis could do some very practical things. They could provide the bypass, address the state of roads in and around the town and make strategic use of the fact that north, south, east and west are connected through Limerick Junction.

Finally, I wish to ask some very specific questions connected to some of the things I have raised already. What level of engagement does the Department have with local authorities throughout the country with regard to the creation of wheelchair accessible bus stops? That is part of the conundrum. The whole fleet could be accessible, but the bus stops in rural and regional Ireland must also be accessible. Local authorities bear a responsibility too. What percentage of the LocalLink fleet is wheelchair accessible? Has there been any progress in inserting a protocol to the effect that no new public service licences will be issued to operators unless they have a 100% accessible fleet? It is unfair to the public purse and the public service that we are licensing private operators while the public transport operator has at least one hand tied behind its back. A private operator can just rock up with an inaccessible bus. Quite apart from people with disability issues I do not see the sense in that. Obviously my concern is for people with disabilities. Can the officials revert to the committee with figures on disability awareness training undertaken by Irish Rail, Bus Éireann and LocalLink staff and on how often refresher training is delivered? Go raibh maith agat. I thank the witnesses.