Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome an tAire, Deputy McHugh to his new role. It is a great honour for him to be appointed Minister for Education and Skills. I will not tackle him on the difficult issues today. He is entitled to get a bit of space to familiarise himself with the issues. I am sure that he got a ministerial brief. I would be grateful if that could be provided to members of the committee, as is standard. We hope that we do not have to submit an application for it under freedom of information legislation. A ministerial brief has been provided before on two occasions by the former Minister, Deputy Bruton, and by the Minister of State at the Department of Education and Skills, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor, respectively. I look forward to receiving the brief and ask that the new Minister arranges for that.

I wish to make an observation but one that does not relate to the new Minister as he only took over the job this week. I have concerns about well-being in general. It is good that there is a focus on well-being. From my own observations, schools have run with the idea and have tried hard to focus on both the well-being of students and teachers with limited resources.

I wish to take the Department up on a number of points. The restoration of guidance counsellor posts has been highlighted as one of the key areas the Department has progressed as part of its well-being policy. The truth is that despite guidance counsellor posts being a condition of the confidence and supply agreement, there was massive resistance by the Department in the shape of bureaucracy to restoring guidance counselling. I want to let the new Minister know that the Department has been entirely hypocritical by boasting about the restoration of guidance counselling when not only was it forced on them by Fianna Fáil as part of the confidence and supply agreement but, subsequently, we had to fight at a number of budgets to ensure the initiative was implemented. Certain forces within the Department did not value guidance counselling and, shockingly, one person even asked me:"Are these the right people that we need dealing with our children?" That is exactly what I was asked by one person who works in the Department. My party is glad to see the restoration of guidance counselling. I urge the new Minister to make sure that the people within his Department who opposed guidance counselling do not succeed under his watch. I ask him to keep as close an eye on this issue as was kept by Fianna Fáil. Certainly, one part of the Department had the perception that guidance was about ferrying people into work, the business world, work experience, etc. Such work is part of guidance counselling but is not all of it.

I welcome the fact that the Minister mentioned a well-being policy in his statement, which I hope means the entire Department has changed its approach to guidance counselling. I believe that the people in the Department who do not value guidance counselling, and increased bureaucracy, will try all sorts of moves at various points to undo the work that has been done.

Why is the allocation of psychologists as part of the National Educational Psychological Service, NEPS, seen as a major focus of the well-being policy? The truth is that NEPS psychologists have existed since the service was started and long before well-being was a buzzword or theme. The psychologists do not, in general, go into schools and provide therapy or teach well-being. Their role is to diagnose and assess the educational and psychological needs of students. A lack of NEPS psychologists has contributed massively to a lack of well-being among certain students who are then unable to get the correct resources or services that they need. NEPS psychologists do go into schools and give assistance at times of crisis but they do not treat or counsel children. As Deputy Catherine Martin mentioned, NEPS is not to be confused with a counselling service. NEPS is very important but it is not a counselling service, and it does not directly help with maintaining the mental health of young people. It is a misnomer for NEPS to be a major focus of the well-being policy and I have noticed that development creep in since the budget. In my view, NEPS is a separate and extremely important service. I would love the new Minister to focus on the service because there is an insufficient number of NEPS psychologists, which has resulted in a significant waiting list. I know that there is a focus on ways to move away from assessment but there will always be a need for educational psychologists. As Deputy Catherine Martin has said, we will have to consider a system of educational counselling based in schools.

I urge the Minister to consider providing nurses in schools thus contributing to enhanced well-being in schools. The creation of such posts has been recommended in the recent report on special needs assistants, SNAs, produced by the National Council for Special Education. It recommended that a small number of nurses in schools could help a significant number of students. It is important that the Minister considers the idea.

My other concern about well-being has been slightly dissipated. I acknowledge that the Department has given greater structure to its well-being initiative. When well-being was first introduced in schools there was very little structure and it was more of a buzzword and a collective of things that already existed. There are extra hours, etc. but there are only so many hours in the day and only so many things that schools can do. Therefore, we need to ensure that the well-being policy is utterly focused and structures.

I want to talk about the type of organisations allowed into schools and I want to Minister on the issue. For key debates such as sex education, various individuals and organisations from a wide range of areas are invited into schools. I tabled a parliamentary question on the issue and it looks like the area is unregulated whether it is sporting bodies, sex education providers, mindfulness providers or yoga teachers. I would love to see a code of practice introduced on who is allowed to go into schools because I firmly believe that a board or a principal will make a simple mistake and allow someone into a school who has no business being involved in the education of our children.

I wish the Minister the best in his new position. It would be unfair for anyone to ask him to go into details today but this meeting is a good opportunity for us to convey our views to him. As the Minister responsible for education, I do not think he should stand for a situation where all responsibilities are thrown at schools and teachers. It should not be the case that when there is a problem with the mental health of children that schools must do something about it. Yes, they can do a lot about the issue but what about the mental health services, the health service, society as a whole, families, Tusla and the Department of Children and Youth Affairs? There are a range of areas that have responsibility. I urge the Minister for Education and Skills, without being cruel or trying to dodge his duties, to ensure that all of the Departments adopt a collaborative approach. The child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, operates under the remit of the Department of Health. I want the Minister for Education and Skills to ensure that when a child needs a service provided by CAMHS that it is the Department of Health that provides it. A well-being policy is fantastic but it is not going to help a child with mental health issues, and there are many such children, who need hospital-based treatment. Frighteningly, there are primary school children who need long-term hospital treatment but that is not a matter for the Department of Education and Skills.

As policy makers, we must keep the focus on the range of Departments which have responsibility for mental health. There is too much of an attitude in this country that schools can be left to deal with the mental health of children and that that will solve all of our problems. The Minister knows that is not the case. I urge caution and that the Department of Education and Skills not take responsibility for everything relating to the mental health of children. I wish the Minister the best of luck in his new role.