Mr. John Barry:

Staying with the numbers across the country arising from the assessment process, in the assessments the fire services have received they have identified issues of concern in 35 buildings, 28 of which are residential and seven are non-residential. In a very small number of cases the concerns identified relate to cladding. Most of the issues relate to matters that arise in buildings generally. Before the Grenfell Tower fire, we were hearing about issues arising in buildings. There are management or procedural issues in buildings such as the management of fire safety measures, the maintenance of fire detection alarm systems, the maintenance of emergency lighting systems and the keeping of maintenance records, including the maintenance of fire resistant doors in working order. Then there are matters such as fire stopping in compartmentation within buildings, issues about which we have heard in recent years. They have arisen in some of these cases. In a very small number of buildings - I have been informed of two cases - it has been found necessary to consider the replacement of cladding. That work is under way in one building and about to start in another. They are more significant works.

In December, as part of the work of the fire safety task force, we developed and issued guidance for fire services and professionals involved in fire safety assessment work. The guidance is on the assessment of cladding systems and factors that could be taken into account. There is a great deal of technical detail in the guidance, but one of the important points is that if an issue is found where a concern about rapid fire spread in the building is considered to be very serious, consideration should be given to the building ceasing to be occupied, pending the completion of remedial works to cladding systems. No case has yet been brought forward where the fire service has considered this to be necessary.

Of the buildings I have mentioned where fire safety assessments are outstanding, in process and expected, fire officers have been in all of them. They have confirmed, or the person having control has confirmed, the existence of life safety systems, fire detection alarm systems and emergency lighting systems and that there are adequate means of escape for people in the premises. These are the basic things that are examined first to ensure they are in place in buildings within this category. While remedial work needs to be done to bring the buildings and cladding insulation on the buildings up to standard, in the meantime, if the basic provisions for life safety are in place, fire services generally do not see the need to cease the occupation of buildings.

On the time being taken to complete this work throughout the country, the fire safety assessment, particularly of cladding insulation on buildings, is work that should be done by persons with a high degree of specialist knowledge. There are only a certain number of people in the country who have that expertise and they are already busy working in the fire safety certification process about which we heard in the opening statements. They tend to be quite engaged in that work on an ongoing basis; therefore, finding the capacity within the fire safety consultancy industry to carry out this work has been an issue. That explains why it is an ongoing process. While it is an ongoing process, in general, fire services have not reported to us on issues that are causing them such immediate concern that buildings should cease to be occupied. We will continue to oversee this work and intend to report to the Minister at the end of the process.