Mr. Jeremy Masding:

Can I answer the Deputy's question? Mortgages in Europe are not generally designed like that, so it is a different question. There is a huge crisis in Ireland, as the Deputy is aware. We had a conversation in 2012. If the banking model I have described had been applied at that time, there would have been thousands of repossessions. The first point I would make is that Permanent TSB and all the other banks set out to avoid large-scale repossessions. I think the data would support that.

The second point I would make is that a large non-performing loan ratio has enormous impacts for banks and future customers, as I have described. If the capital markets perceive that a bank is riskier, the cost of capital to that bank becomes higher. Therefore, the next best alternative is to undertake to the best of our ability a loan sale where the protections travel with the loans and, at the time when we sell the loans, the buyer is there and there are treatments which will be maintained.

The third point I would make is that for me, debt forgiveness essentially involves having to choose between different customers. I am not in a position to do that. We might disagree about what my job entails, but as I see it my job is to get the best return on capital that I can for all Irish taxpayers. I believe that is being accomplished through the long-term treatments and the loan sale. I think the Deputy's question has some broader connotations with regard to housing supply and the role of Irish society. I cannot comment on that. I think we have done all we can within the boundaries we were given. Mr. O'Sullivan put in place many long-term treatments. Mr. Crowley designed a loan sale that was the best construct we could come up with in the context of what we had. I would summarise moral hazard as having to choose between customers when making decisions on how to use capital. Debt forgiveness forces banks to make such choices. It is not for a bank to make such a choice because all of the capital is the taxpayers' capital.