Dr. Gabriel Scally:

----and they had not been involved in it.

I thought my report was fairly clear about things when I said that there was appreciation at the top of the HSE that all was not well, mainly because they engaged an external consultancy company to do a report on it. When one looks at the findings of that report, the one I quote in particular is as follows:

there continues to be a somewhat negative relationship and clear disconnect described by the programs between themselves and the HSE chain of command. Issues of isolation, suspicion, lack of trust or support and poor or non-existent communication were cited.

That shows there was clearly some understanding that things were not going well at that point.