Professor Philip Lane:

I will make three points. First, to return to the issue of customers, if we were starting at point zero or coming to this cold, of course one would have to do customer interviews. However, we have a great deal of information from customers already. It was not a stand-alone project. It is integral to all that has come before. Second, within that we believe it is important for these banks to embed the information to be gathered from customer surveys and focus groups. They would need to have mechanisms at board level to absorb what they learn from customers. That is part of this cultural shift.

On the Senator's points, under the CCMA and the code of conduct the banks have a responsibility to be proactive with any customer in arrears in engaging and trying to resolve them. If the Senator has evidence that any bank neglected that in any case-----