Victor Boyhan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank Dr. Hayden and Professor Norris for the very interesting work they have done and the interesting paper they presented today. Conscious of the time, I will focus on some of the things that were said here today. The witnesses referred to the regular conduct of a comprehensive condition service of local housing stock. As someone who has been involved in local government for many years, I know there is a different application for the management of housing stock versus the standard inspectorate that would go with the private sector and with the local authorities. I made contact with a particular local authority recently which told me it did not have the time or resources and, in any event, it was always sure of its own stock. However, it is not always sure of its own stock, which is why we have this problem with the turnaround of a lot of our stock and the length of time it takes to bring a void back. Some of units are in a very bad state. I have spoken to council tenants who say that, in 30 years, they have never had an inspection or an official from the local authority in their properties. The only person who may come is a subcontractor regarding a set of works. Many people just get on and do the works rather than waste time. That is interesting. We should have a level playing pitch and the rigorous inspectorate system we have for the private sector, which is right and correct, should also apply to social housing.

The witnesses talked about suspending the tenant purchase scheme for council housing. They do not quantify that but Professor Norris suggested doing it for a while until we get out of this crisis. I ask the witnesses to tease that out. There are arguments for and against tenant purchase of housing. This is valuable housing stock and people's housing needs change. That is a reality now which it is very difficult to explain to tenants. It is a challenge for housing authorities to say that housing need changes. The witnesses might flesh that out a bit.

The witnesses might be surprised about this but I have major concerns about removing the availability of successor tenancies. I know people who have stayed back and cared for an elderly parent and who may have issues personally. They have put a lot into their homes. It should be remembered that we are not talking about houses; we are talking about people's homes. We are talking about people who live in these homes and about people who are integrated into these communities and who have a right to stay in them. I accept that we have a crisis, but I ask the witnesses to tease that out for me and to explain their thinking.

I accept fully that there is a lot of merit in the shared-services model. We see that in other sectors in HR, payroll and across the local authority sector where it is done well. Dr. Hayden spoke about a growing awareness of a suspicion between the Department and local authorities. I agree with her more and more. I came here thinking a lot of the issues were for the local authorities, conscious that there were a number of local authority representatives here and that we were hearing one side of it. When one meets departmental officials, they tell one another side. There is a gap there and there is an issue we need to address between the officials in the Custom House who say we have problems and councils saying something else. There is a lot of blame in this business. We need to meet the two and bring them together.

The two need to be brought together, and we must find out what the real story here is. The blame game cannot continue. We have to ask why local authorities are telling us that they have substantial lands zoned. I am thinking about Shanganagh Castle and other places around Dublin in particular, which I know well. We need to know what is holding up these developments.

What is the honest assessment of the witnesses in terms of the housing assistance payment, HAP, scheme? We know that many people do not want to take HAP, and their reasons for that. Perhaps both witnesses can share what they really think about HAP and how it can work going forward.