Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

We are not having a discussion about this. When the Accounting Officer is here, the committee can ask him that question.

I am of the view that we will not have any questions in respect of the President at all. This is important and I want to put this in the public arena because it might not be fully appreciated, even though it is a matter on the public record. There is a discussion every year at the Estimates committee on Vote 1. I was the Fianna Fáil spokesperson on public expenditure in the previous Dáil. I attended the committee five years in a row with the Taoiseach and officials. There is a detailed explanation presented by the Civil Service to the Oireachtas as part of that process. I have attended that at least five times in recent times. Deputy Burke knows full well because he attended that meeting on 29 March this year.

At that meeting this year, the Civil Service provided detailed information on expenditure on the office of the President's Establishment. It gave specific details on administration and pay, detailed notes on underspend, detailed notes on travel and subsistence, what trips were taken, not taken, planned and have happened so far this year, detailed notes on training and development and on the centenary bounty for people who reach 100 years of age. All of that was provided year in, year out by the Civil Service for the Oireachtas to discuss in detail. I know from attending the committee, as does Deputy Burke, that the members are free to discuss it in detail or to glance over it. At the meeting, the Taoiseach even made reference to the Vote for the President's Establishment because he was also dealing with the Vote for the Office of the Taoiseach at the same meeting. It was a matter for the committee members that year and every other year how much they wanted to delve into them. Some years they had a detailed discussion about the President's office while other years they did not.

At that meeting on 29 March this year, at which the Taoiseach gave details on this matter, he was accompanied by Mr. Martin Fraser. If it was constitutional for that meeting to happen and for the Taoiseach and Mr. Martin Fraser to discuss expenditure on Vote 1, it is constitutional now. To raise the issue that he thinks it is unconstitutional to discuss expenditure in respect of Vote 1 at an Oireachtas committee, it is obvious what he is suggesting about his attendance. He has raised this issue but his actions have spoken louder than his words by his actual physical attendance at the Taoiseach's side. He talks about the political impartiality of the Civil Service. The Civil Service gave detailed briefings to that Oireachtas committee year in, year out. It is on the record of the House. I do not understand why it could now be a constitutional issue. We have to move on. There is no difference between one Oireachtas committee discussing Vote 1 and another discussing it.