Ms Marie Donnelly:

It is an issue that needs to be debated and thought about. If there is a cost, people have to decide whether they are prepared to pay it. I agree there is no simple answer. However, Germany is moving to offshore development because it needs the energy. One has to remember that Germany is taking seven nuclear power stations out of action in 2022. Germany is using much more coal and lignite now than it did previously but it wants to get rid of it. That can only happen if enough renewable energy is available. Germany is caught a little bit in a dilemma as to how to go forward on its power system.

I said earlier that the technology of wind turbines had changed dramatically. The height has increased because there is better control and that has changed the situation with regard to the acceptability and utility of sites. Initially, we were always looking at putting turbines on mountain tops but it is not perhaps as necessary to do that today as with the earlier versions of the technology. It may be more constructive or cost-effective to put a wind farm close to a grid connection, rather than to have to build a grid connection out. This is a balance because the grid connections for build out will tend to be in areas of sparse population and that might be a preferred option for wind farms. On the other hand, if one goes to a place where there is a lot of gid connection, there will probably be a lot of people too. One has to strike a balance economically. The discussion should be had with people, however, to state a preferred option and the reasons for it and to ask what they think. It may be, however, that the Government will have to say that while people do not want it, someone has to supply it. As such, an element of framing will need to be done because we will need, ultimately, to have the power from somewhere.

On battery units, I reiterate that one should touch them and stand beside them. They should listen to the battery units. I have seen them in operation in Belfast, for example, where they can react in one tenth of a second to the power situation. They can operate for three minutes, which is generally enough to prevent a power outage. While they are not cheap, they are hugely useful, especially when one has renewable energy coming through. Given where we are now with our technology, it might be better in the future. If people have a concern, bring them up and let them see it. Let them hear it, touch it and ask the questions. Let them put their concerns on the table and answer them honestly and correctly. People should be given the information. Some will be convinced and some might not. Let us at least try to convince those who are open to being convinced. That is the real issue.

The Deputy is correct regarding offshore wind that the conditions off the west coast of Ireland are hostile. There is no discussion on that. It is why the five wind farms are in the Irish Sea, which is much more attractive. However, we should not neglect the west coast. While it is true that the wind speeds there are higher and there will be more maintenance involved, more power can be generated, so there is an opportunity. We have to think about it and how to exploit it, but it is there.

On the 2020 fines, apart from the cost, which we are all concerned about, what makes me really nervous is that the population will consider it to be a question of Brussels beating us up again and, because we pay fines, people will become hostile to climate action and the energy transition. They will become negative about it. If for no other reason, we have to spend the money as quickly as we can in the country for the benefit of the people who live here. People might not be sensitive to it now, but if it is a choice between a new hospital wing and paying fines to Brussels, I know how the population will react. We have to try to pre-empt and minimise that as best we can to avoid a negative reaction on the part of the population.