Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

May I ask a couple of short questions? As I stated, Ms Donnelly was involved at the highest level in the establishment of the Sustainable Energy for All programme, on which I think the commission did a good job. I liked the 2020 package developed by the commission but it has learned and changed its approach and the rates have evolved. We are subject to the new governance system and must assist the Government in achieving targets within the very tight timeline under the new national energy and climate action plans. I acknowledge that Ms Donnelly left the commission last year but, as she was involved in drafting the governance structures, is she aware of any Government which is successfully implementing such plans?

There are such tight time limits and my understanding is that we do not really have a plan ready. What could we do in three or four months? Does Ms Donnelly have any suggestions when it comes to the actual drafting of the national energy and climate action plan which is, in my understanding of the governance system, the be all and end all of this matter? Does she have any advice as to how we would write this or how we as a committee might assist the Government in writing it?

The Irish Fiscal Advisory Council was in yesterday and said, in its work of assessing fiscal risk for this country, that both the likelihood and the impact of the risk of Ireland paying climate fines are potentially high and that this is a real concern. I know that some say that Europe will never fine us; that this will never happen. Does Ms Donnelly think that we will get fines and can she give any assessment as to what they might be? How can we avoid them? Perhaps the latter part of that question is too big. Is there a real potential for fines, however, and if so can the witness give a figure as to what they might amount to?

Thinking big here, we have passed Second Stage of a Bill which will end offshore oil and gas exploration in Irish waters and I am convinced and confident that, if the Dáil has time, this Bill will pass into law. The Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016, introduced by Trócaire, Deputy Thomas Pringle and others, was historically important in showing leadership in divestment and I believe that we will have a similar ability to end offshore oil and gas exploration. The reason I think that is because it is feasible for us to develop offshore wind on the west coast of Ireland, using places like Killybegs, Galway and Shannon, and floating offshore wind, in particular, given that the seas are so rough. I believe that we should be doing this on the scale of ten, 15 or 20 gigawatts with a view to selling it into the rest of the European system. As Ms Donnelly said, the industry wants people who are thinking big and thinking long term on this matter. If we are thinking big then, does she think it a rational industrial, economic and energy policy for us to think of producing that scale of offshore wind on the west coast in order to export to the rest of Europe? From my own perspective I would like to say that everyone else is betting €100 million a pop on oil exploration that never finds anything. We know that there is wind out there and that the technology works, so my sense is that this is the scale of ambition for which we should be going.

I have two further questions. One of the risks here concerns Brexit. Ms Donnelly mentioned work on the North Sea countries offshore grid initiative and on the north-west electricity market. In order to sell the offshore wind on the west coast we would obviously have to either go through the United Kingdom or sell into it. Should we hold back and wait to see what happens with Brexit or is the regional electricity market with which Ms Donnelly was previously involved still progressing?

Ms Donnelly cited the example of Flanders, where there has been some really good co-operative investment in renewable energy. I was very fortunate to meet a company operating as an ecopower co-operative in Flanders and this was the best example I have seen where one was able to invest into the company with as little a €250 per share. One could invest in large-scale renewables as well as in local, small-scale projects and there was a supply company giving very good energy service supply company assistance. Why is it that we have no ecopower co-operative in Ireland, in Plunkett House, for example? I was very moved by a comment at one of our earlier hearings which compared the work of this committee to the work of the recess committee carried out by Horace Plunkett in the 1890s. This is exactly the model for us to follow as it was collaborative and used the resources of our land well. Horace Plunkett is a hero and a model for co-operatives in the rest of Europe, certainly in the United Kingdom and elsewhere. What is the obstacle preventing Irish co-operatives from taking the ecopower model and introducing it here? What is stopping us?