Dr. Kelly de Bruin:

I understand what the Deputy is saying. I agree that the carbon tax is not a perfect measure. It only works if the infrastructure is there to help people to make decisions on it. However, a carbon tax will put a cost on all the things these organisations are doing that are bad for the environment. The Deputy gave the example of choosing between vegetables packaged in plastic that have been transported from half way across the world and local vegetables. If there is a price difference because of the carbon tax, people will choose the local vegetables which are environmentally better. That is the essence of a carbon tax, that one tries to use these environmental costs that are not incorporated in the decisions by organisations or consumers and one makes them an explicit cost. That is why we need a carbon tax that is higher because the carbon tax does not currently reflect the environmental costs of carbon, which is in the hundreds of euro per tonne.