Mr. Tom O'Callaghan:

We are not looking at 159 post offices; we are looking at 390 communities that have not been offered a contract. This is upsetting in itself for the people involved but more to the point, their income will collapse within two and half to three years. The reason is because we are heavily dependent on the social welfare contract. In 2012, the Government was told that if it was reduced from €60 million, there would be problems. It actually reduced it to €54 million and the current figure is €51 million yet Government policy that will come in 2019 from the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection clearly states that it will be tendered for the cashless society so the question is what will replace that income when it does come in. How do we stop it? Every Deputy in Dáil Éireann signed up to this. We all made an agreement and I negotiated it with my colleagues here. What we asked was that a five-year holding plan be put in place. This would enable us to get those Government contracts that we would funnel into the post office. An example of that would be if someone was signing on. Why can this not be done within his or her local post office? If we look at motor tax, we can see that 80% of this is done online but 20% could be done in a local post office. These elements need to be brought up to a head in order that we can find an economic solution.

We talked about passion. Yes, we are passionate about the network and that is why we are all here but we must also be realistic. New products are vital, which banking will also enable us to provide. Every post office in Ireland could be like an Argos catalogue. Why can a person not walk into their small post office and buy a colour television? Why can that money not then be circulated within their village? I think we would have no trouble getting new customers.

We need to look at this in a long-term fashion, look at where mistakes were made and look for solutions. Over ten years ago, Bank of Ireland supposedly came to the rescue of the post office in England. It did a deal. Everyone thought it was wonderful and that there would be loads of products. The spin was that every service was there for rural and urban areas. The reality is that last year alone, a profit of more than £15 billion was made for Bank of Ireland while the postmasters are struggling to survive. Something is very wrong. What do the unions in England want to do? They want to get out of the deal. To get out of that deal right now will cost them over £2 billion. We have an opportunity to do right for the first time ever.

Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell is correct. There is approximately €22 billion in savings and investments in post offices. Where did that money come from? How did they build that figure? We all recall the financial crisis. In 2008, there was a serious issue about whether we would have our own currency. We all recall the stories about how the Army would be there to secure ATMs. What did people do? They turned to their local postmaster and in short space of time, over €15 billion was put into the post office. That figure is now over €22 billion. Why are we now attacking the very people all over the country who have helped to mind our money and who now face closure?

We also made reference to the subsidy. Again, I acknowledge there is a short-term gap. However, a document from Grant Thornton clearly states that the UK Government has used subvention to help the network. We have heard the figure of €8 million. Again, I have problems with numbers because McKinsey has conducted a detailed analysis of the company. I can assure the committee that we will provide the figures that we need to maintain the network for the next five years and proposals to bring us back but we do not want to cost the Exchequer money. We bailed out the banks in 24 hours yet we are prepared to see the network shut down. We are talking about possibly €170 million. Again, our focus is seriously wrong. The Grant Thornton report stated that the UK Government has used subvention to help the network. In respect of its account for the loss of income associated with the reduction in social welfare, which sounds familiar in Ireland, the report stated that at best, these subsidies provide a safety buffer for the post office while it is trying to establish a more reliable long-term stream. We all agreed in November 2016 and asked for a holding plan to allow the implementation of this bank but also the products. Let us put real Ireland back on the map.