Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour) | Oireachtas source

It is apparent that extreme climatic events will be part and parcel of our lives going forward.

They will be the order of the day. It is going to have to be all hands on deck to deal with what is to be an ongoing crisis over the next period of time, which I stated at this committee last January and before that in November. It is very important that everybody plays a role, including the farmers, as to management of stock and various matters. I know the Minister is very committed to Food Wise 2025 and so on. I would like to see these things achieve their objectives, but they should be subject to review in the context of the targets that have been set.

I welcome some of the things that the Minister has been doing. He has not been idle. I do not subscribe to that idea. The extension of the greening measures from last week to help alleviate the fodder crisis and the Minister's work with the EU Commission in that regard, in allowing farmers to consider some winter crops as cash crops, is extremely important. Allowing some of those cash crops to be pure crops rather than mixtures are all very practical issues to shorten the eight week period. Much of this can be achieved. The EU, however, is a bit slow. I was disappointed as everything is going to be retro-active if one is to take steps. Deputy Cahill is correct. This is not just an Irish problem. This is now Europe-wide. What worries me about that is that some of those places and sources from where we were able to potentially import fodder will no longer be available. That is a cause of concern and is something that has to be taken account of.

The fodder transport measures were previously very important for farmers in the west and north west in helping to deal with glaring fodder deficits there, with money being provided for transport costs. The Minister is clearly looking at this in terms of the €4.25 million. The first measure is a typical Department one. There were more red lines and bells and whistles to it that rendered it almost self-defeating. I believe the Minister is removing a lot of these in this respect as he extends this nationally, and gets rid of any restrictions that might be there, which I believe is important.

I live in a predominantly beef area and the factories are behaving as expected. They hammer people into submission and they increase their prices at a whim. They have their own feed lots to bring their cattle on stream so as to ensure that farmers get less and have to take less and become price-takers. Some farmers in the beef industry will see that it is more profitable to sell their fodder and to get rid of their cattle. Funnily, many dairy farmers are eager to purchase the fodder, so they have a ready-made market which would be a more profitable. That is a worry because our beef industry is absolutely critical in terms of rural employment and the generation of rural income. We need to watch out in relation to this issue.

If one wants to have a bullseye impact, the Minister will have to do away with his reticence to consider meal vouchers. They will be critical in the future. I am aware of the reasons the Minister is concerned. It is important to have it targeted but it is one of the few ways to proceed. There may not be a huge element of fodder available to import because of the widespread nature of this crisis. The meal voucher will, therefore, have to be looked at in this regard. I am aware of some of the work that is ongoing and that some of the co-ops are working with their members and charging zero interest rates and so on, but I only hope that more of them do that.

One of the concerns I have is in regard to the banks. I do not believe a word they ever say and I notice they have many schemes in operation. I noticed that the last time they came in here, they said that there was not a big uptake in overdraft interest. How could anyone take up overdraft interest? I had occasion to ring up about overdraft interest in recent weeks and I nearly fell off the chair. They are charging 8.5% interest and if one is a business, I was told it would be 13%. They make Al Capone look like a decent boy who would not rob anybody. They will come in here and will be almost in tears. I have had enough of them. The Government is letting everybody down. We proposed the Sparkasse model to take on those boyos. A shower of bureaucrats drew up a report, the points of which will be repudiated over the next number of weeks. This report was written by people who were intent on ensuring that the pillar banks would be protected. The SBCI was involved in administering the low-cost scheme. I read two weeks ago that there are no banks interested in getting the money from it when they can get it cheaper in the markets. This is another waste of time. It is time to hijack them and send them off into oblivion. Bring in something like the Sparkasse model where money can be provided in sectoral and regional areas for farmers, for other self-employed people, for innovation and for business. That is what has to be done. This is going to be an ongoing problem.

Deputy Cahill is correct. Low-cost schemes for farmers are absolutely critical. The last one was at 2.95% interest rate and was a very good scheme. I am aware that the Minister has many issues to deal with. I am aware that many people come in here and pretend that one does not have to deal with de minimisrules and such matters. The Minister has to deal with many issues and I understand that and I will not try to get a headline and say he can do this or that. The low-cost scheme, however, is absolutely critical. I do not want the Minister, however, to be depending on the banks because they are legalised robbers. They are getting money for nothing in that they are paying out nothing on deposits. One nearly has to pay them to store that money. They then seek to charge 8% or 9%, which is ridiculous. It is no wonder that there is nobody taking that money.

Very often farmers and self-employed people have tor resort to overdraft facilities. Why would one resort to that when it is that type of money is charged? I do not want any crocodile tears from the banks when they appear here in a few minutes. They will be telling us all sorts and sizes. I do not want to be listening to that type of nonsense. I have had my fill of them. If I had my way, they would have competition with the Sparkasse model and that would put a bit of steam under them. There are too many vested interests within Government, however, to make sure that does not happen.

I want to conclude by saying that it boils down to the provision of money at affordable rates. When money goes over a 3% interest rate, one is in trouble on a farm. The returns are not there. Those cattle farmers I spoke to need about €4.40 or €4.50 per kilogram to try to make the cattle pay, and they do have not a chance of making that with the way the beef factories operate. One needs some way of getting imported fodder and I am concerned about that as this a Europe-wide issue. In fairness to the Minister, he is trying to tackle that. He did not sit on his hands. He was working during the summer, as I know from contact I made with him in relation to this issue, and I acknowledge that.

The Minister has to look at the meal voucher situation and see if that can be introduced. It should be part of the Teagasc review and studies. It should be looked at to see how it can be achieved. Overall, the approach should be all hands on deck. We have a management situation as well and we have to be careful. We all know what it is going to take. We all know we are into seven tonnes per animal in the winter period and that is at least a six month period, if not more. We have to manage this at farm level and take cognisance of the overall global and climatic environment that we are all now faced with.