Mr. David Duffy:

Senator Ruane and Deputy Catherine Martin referred to PE halls and spaces being available in some schools and not in others. My ASTI, JMB, ACCS and Department of Education and Skills colleagues also referred to this. The impact of not having green spaces and PE halls available is quite serious, particularly in the context of junior cycle curricular change and the forthcoming senior cycle change.

In terms of the differences in provision, it is quite a complicated area. Some schools have good PE facilities while others have virtually none. There are many reasons for that occurring, but it is awkward and difficult. With regard to places in some and not in others, again it depends on demographics in the area. It also depends on the desired education to be available. For example, there is only one Gaelcholáiste in the north Kerry region, so if one lives in that area and wishes to have one's child educated through the medium of Irish, one will be driving the child a long distance or dependent on the school transport system that was mentioned.

In terms of prefabs, my colleague from the ACCS made reference to, for example, schools that were asked to expand rapidly to cater for demographic growth. Schools are sometimes put under significant pressure to put in a lot of prefabs as a temporary measure because of demographics locally. That sometimes means that prefabs are built on sporting facilities, which can be problematic.

With regard to new second level schools that are opening to deal with demographics, awaiting permanent buildings and currently being housed in a local primary schools that might have some space available, I particularly thank our primary school colleagues who are facilitating and accommodating of second level schools in this context. I do not want this to be interpreted in any way as criticism; they are helpful. It throws up issues for both parties involved, however. One school had a science laboratory. It had "Science Laboratory" written on the door and one sink. I am sorry but that does not constitute a science laboratory. In terms of a home economics room, "Home Economics" was written on the door and four cookers were put in. Again, everyone involved had the best intentions and made their best efforts, but that does not constitute a home economics room. A new school that wanted to have as many STEM subjects as possible had to take technology off the timetable because no room was able to cater for the subject. There are also issues around no sports facilities being available for teenagers because naturally enough - and quite understandably - the school, as a primary school, was designed for younger children. Where a post-primary school is using it temporarily, that creates a problem. In one school there are also issues regarding 16 year old second level students being in the same building at the same time as young children. That is not ideal.

Senator Ruane made reference to ancillary staff and my ACCS colleague also covered this. A new school of 1,000 students will get one caretaker, one secretary and one cleaner. In schools that do their best to open late at night to cater for the local community holding community meetings, to make sports facilities available to the local community, or to provide night classes, as many community schools and community colleges, in particular, do, one cleaner, one caretaker and one secretary does not come close to meeting the need.

In addition, Deputy Catherine Martin and others made reference to bringing existing stock up to the standards of new facilities. Many of the science laboratories that went into schools 30 or 40 years ago - and I think Deputy Byrne made reference to this - have been updated to the extent of providing additional or updated plumbing and gas-proofing. However, one obvious problem that crops up each time is non-slip flooring. It corrodes naturally over time. Obviously non-slip flooring is quite important in a science laboratory. I have been told that updating non-slip flooring in a science laboratory would cost approximately €8,000 per room. If that had to come out of the school budget, it would represent a big chunk of the budgets of many schools. These are some of the problems that crop up.