Catherine Martin (Dublin Rathdown, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for their detailed presentations. In the first instance, I want to address Ms Ryan of Our Lady's Grove Concerned Parents Group. I am most familiar with this school as it is in my constituency. I find the situation quite bizarre, as do the parents. I was at the meeting with the Minister and his officials when we were told there simply was not enough demand for school places to justify the expansion of that school or the protection of the land. However, a year later, funding for 42 schools was announced, two of which were in the Goatstown-Stillorgan area, the very area for which we were told there was no demand in the previous year. I simply do not understand that. How does that happen? How can parents be told that there is no demand in one year but yet, a year later, there is enough demand to warrant a new primary and secondary school in the area? If there was no mistake and there really was a bizarre change in the demographics of the area, what does that indicate about the Department's mechanism for deciding on the provision of new schools?

In its submission the Department says it only has a four-year window to plan for primary schools. There must be a more long-term approach to planning taken by county councils and their planning departments, the Department for Housing, Planning and Local Government and other Government entities. What is the Department doing to protect school lands across the country? With the greatest of respect, as a former councillor I am well aware that zoning is a reserved function. What communication takes place during the development plan process between the Department and the council? Councillors should be given an indication from the Department. In my constituency, 25 of the 33 schools were zoned for residential use. Was this flagged by the Department during the development plan process? There has been a rapid growth in population here, as well as an increase in births. If that communication is not taking place, should it happen? There should be greater communication and co-operation between councils and the Department of Education and Skills during that planning process, ensuring that councillors are well informed enough to make decisions on the zoning of lands during the development process, rather than having to go through the complicated process of re-opening it. Are there plans for that type of communication to take place?

A large amount of land will be sold off. We know that because religious orders are looking to sell off land to fund projects such as nursing homes for the religious, as in the case of Our Lady's Grove national school. This is not specific to Goatstown; it will happen across the country. Greater co-operation is required in that area. It was stated earlier that most school sites are not owned by the Minister for Education and Skills and that decisions relating to the future of the lands rest with the owners. Has the Department looked into the possibility of bringing forward legislation to retain open green spaces or has it examined the possibility of compulsory purchase orders to retain such lands? Has it thought about purchasing additional lands for existing schools as required?

Does the Department have comprehensive aggregable data on the physical infrastructure of school buildings in the State? This would include information about the size of the buildings, the condition they are in, a list of available facilities and information on access to recreation and sporting facilities etc. The ASTI submission, mentioned by others today, led me to the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General from 1996, which referenced the fact that a number of tasks were recommended by a 1988 report drawn up by an interdepartmental committee of officials.

One of these was that an inventory of school accommodation detailing the location, size and condition of all school buildings should be prepared as a matter of urgency. I wonder whether this urgent inventory has ever been done because the indications from witnesses are that it has not been done. Why is that?

That leads to a question I have brought up many times in the committee. If we consider one resource facility, namely, physical education halls, there is a complete refusal to audit schools to identify those that do not have PE halls, yet we are rolling out physical education as a leaving certificate subject. That inevitably leads to an inequality. When a whole-school evaluation or one of the new management, leadership and learning evaluations, MLLs, is carried out in a school and the report indicates that the lack of a PE hall is having an impact on students, is that a matter for the forward planning section or is the issue parked somewhere in a report? Is the fact that the school needs a PE hall flagged? Twice now, a whole-school evaluation and MLL have indicated there is no PE hall and this is having an impact. This was before it was announced that physical education was to become a leaving certificate subject.

If it is the case that an inventory of school accommodation has not been done, what are the Department's plans in this regard? I assume an inventory must have been done at some stage for State schools, if not all schools. Is there a template for the information to be provided by schools on their physical infrastructure? If so, is it possible to provide us with the template and outline the information the Department has on the location, size and condition of school buildings?

I notice the Department's submission refers to the way it tracks enrolments but does not seem to mention any other way of tracking capacity. I am aware of a school in my constituency that was built 40 years ago with a capacity of 1,000 students. It has had 450 students or thereabouts for the past 15 years. Is that information being recorded or is only enrolment at the school being recorded? The school has space available. What is being done to support or invest in the school and bring it and other underutilised schools up to capacity? If the Department does not have information on schools' physical capacity, how can it properly tackle underutilisation and ensure the school to which I refer and others like it receive investment to respond to the changing educational needs outlined by Ms Leydon? Are we over-providing in the identified new school provision? Is that the best use of public money when there are schools like the one in my constituency, which was built for 1,000 students and has had a maximum of 450 students for the past ten years? That would not seem to be the case in Goatstown and with Our Lady's Grove primary school. We just move on, announce a new school and forget about available space, which in this case would be ideal for our children and for planning ahead.

What is the policy for bringing existing stock up to the standards of the new schools, where possible? Is there a target policy in place to work with data on the condition of current school infrastructure to prioritise certain improvements across the school building stock in a co-ordinated and effective way? Does the Department have data on which schools are below the standards of new schools? What is its policy on bringing these existing schools up to standard? Is there a priority list, either based on the schools in the worst shape or those lacking key facilities? What is the Department's policy on ensuring schools have access to open recreational space, identified as the ideal in the new school specification?

The witness from the Irish National Teachers Organisation, INTO, mentioned appropriate supports from the Department for teaching principals of schools that are being extended. Will she expand upon these supports?

What is the Department doing to improve its communication on school projects? Principals find this issue problematic, and I have also found it problematic when trying to help them with it. Moreover, has the Department thought about outsourcing to some sort of manager so as to take pressure off principals?