Fiona O'Loughlin (Kildare South, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I will add a few comments. It is appropriate that we take everybody's comments at the same time. I was convinced by the argument I heard from Ms Angela Dunne and her colleagues when we met on the last occasion that this is something the committee needed to prioritise and bring to another level. This is the first time that has happened. With regard to political will, what we are doing here is important in terms of highlighting it. Moreover, when we have the opportunity to issue a report and make recommendations to the Minister and the Department, that certainly will be a step in the right direction. I looked at the photograph from Scoil Uí Chonaill. If I remember correctly, Ms Dunne is a walking principal and must cater for 26 staff, including SNAs and ancillary staff. Teaching is a full-time role and every child who goes to school in the Republic of Ireland - and of course the island of Ireland - deserves to have the best teaching experience possible, but we have a situation where teaching principals are constantly being called away from class to deal with administrative and management issues. This is happening even in the best run schools that have a teaching principal. They still have to leave their class.

As has been mentioned, there are health and safety issues.

I come from a teaching background and have friends who are teaching principals. I have a friend who stepped down from it as well. We met two such principals who then did not have a place in their schools. Every teaching principal should have the right to step back when the added burden is too much, particularly if they enjoy the teaching role, as many do, and have a great deal to offer in a classroom. We need a far better system whereby they are treated with the dignity and respect they deserve, as opposed to having to go back down to the bottom of the staff list in their school.

It is acknowledged that a principal's job is difficult anyway, regardless of whether the school is big or small. In most instances the smaller schools are older schools, so there will be more issues. During the earlier session we dealt with the capital building programme and it was clearly conveyed to us that we are dealing with a legacy of many older buildings that require refurbishment work. Many of those are the smaller schools so the principal is dealing with all of those issues that must be dealt with apart from dealing with staffing, the curriculum, the board, the budget and providing real leadership in education and learning. As trying to combine the two is difficult, I understand Senator Ruane's question as to why we do not opt for the big one. I believe it is something we should seek but on an interim basis, looking for one day a week would be huge. I support the call regarding special education schools, where 17 of the principals are teaching principals. There absolutely should be a moratorium for all principals in a special education situation because there are so many extra issues and so many extra staff required to try to give the students the best possible experience.

The committee commissioned a report on mental health in education and presented it about a year ago. We made 18 recommendations to the Minister. We made recommendations on the positive mental health of teachers as well. It is of great importance to value and support teachers in ensuring children and students get the best possible experience. Listening to and reading the diary excerpts from teachers and teaching principals on the challenges they face on an ongoing basis, there is no doubt but that it must cause undue stress. You found that teaching principals work an additional 20 to 30 hours per week. Obviously that is more than 48 hours. If those extra hours were costed it would not make the job any easier but would it make the advantages of it any easier if there was extra pay in that regard?

How is the extent of the workload impacting on the recruitment of principals? There appears to be a problem recruiting principals in mainstream primary schools generally but I imagine the situation is very difficult in the case of teaching principals. While the teaching principals need more administrative and secretarial supports, they also need more training. However, the principal has to leave the classroom for training so there will still be issues if substitute teachers cannot be acquired. The only way to deal with it is to have a paid panel of substitute teachers who are able to support both the one day per week for the administrative workload and the extra training and so forth that principals need.

Those are the comments I wish to offer. The witnesses tell a compelling story.

It is certainly something the committee will take up. I will now give the witnesses an opportunity to respond to the comments and questions, beginning with Mr. Clerkin.