Fiona O'Loughlin (Kildare South, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I wish to comment and ask some questions. I am conscious that it has been a long session, particularly for those in the hot seat, although it has been very engaging and worthwhile. A few common themes have emerged from the opening statements received and this debate, and these have been touched on by my colleagues, especially in regard to land around schools not being designated as open space or being protected.

Frankly, it is a bit of a cop-out to say that because the Minister does not own the school sites, then the management and retention is not a matter for the Minister or the Department. We must have a far better system than that. We also need to have far better collaboration and consultation between the Department and local authorities, and between local authority members because it is they who are tasked with rezoning with regard to development plans. I was a councillor for a number of years and we never had the opportunity to actually meet the Department. The officials from the local authority sat with the Department and I believe that a three-way process would be important. The evidence that would come to bear would be really important. In one particular area in my county I sat through two development plans where one area was zoned educational. Even though we were told clearly on both occasions that the landowner was never going to sell the land to the Department or to anybody else for educational use, it was considered the only place because the planners felt it was the best place to locate a school. Against all our better instincts, the area was zoned educational in two successive plans. It was a bit of a ridiculous situation but those types of situations continue.

The planning and construction phases of works to new build schools and existing schools are very long processes. As building costs are now increasing exponentially, surely we must have a better system. Mr. Loftus is aware of this because I have raised the issue with him previously, as well as at the meeting in Tullamore, with regard to the situation in St. Paul's secondary school in Monasterevin and how long that process has gone on. There was also the issue of the extra numbers that had to be in place. I am aware that traffic management situations also must be taken into account with a new school and with a school extension. While everything changes within a short time, the build is a very lengthy process.

I agree that the administrative burden placed on schools during the building process is excessive. At a previous meeting of this committee we have spoken of problems with communication between the Department and schools. It was agreed, and was certainly taken on board, that there would be a better communication process and that a designated official in the forward planning section would communicate all the information on progress, lack of progress, issues and challenges. It was certainly a recommendation at that time that there would be a designated project manager to take away this burden.

A principal's function is to lead learning within a school situation. When principals' time is completely caught up with a new build, they nearly become builders and planners themselves. I personally know principals who say they have become experts in every form of school building. It is no harm to have extra knowledge but to have someone to follow through with all of the administrative work is hugely important.

Reference was made to class size and according to the OECD, Ireland already has school class sizes that are five pupils larger than the EU average. This must be borne in mind. The continued excessive use of prefabs is very concerning. While a commitment was made some 15 years ago by the then Minister that prefabs would be phased out, it seems they still exist on a very large scale. Schools that are already in the planning programme and that are hoping to have schools built by this time next year have been told to apply for prefabs for this year. Again, these prefabs are being put on the schools' open spaces and onto the only small pieces of yard that are available for students. This is not good enough.

I will refer briefly to the issues regarding the minor works grant, the emergency works scheme, the summer works scheme and the additional accommodation scheme. Between all the different schemes it is no wonder that people get confused.

There is considerable administrative work involved in applying for those grants. Almost every submission the committee received referred to issues relating to those grants. The Minister said in May of this year that the Department intended to engage with the relevant partners on giving schools a better lead-in period for planning and delivering projects under these schemes and that this engagement would commence shortly. That is one question I want to put to Mr. Loftus. What is the status of this engagement? What are the plans for reform in this area so that schools can better prepare? School staff should know by January in any given year what they are getting and what they can do with what they get. Ms Jordan and Ms Ryan made the argument well about having adequate space for students.

My colleagues mentioned the need for an inventory. We need an inventory of accommodation, including physical education halls etc. Indeed, I would go further. We had an engagement on obesity among children and how the problem can be addressed through our education process. We discussed the issue of drinking water being available in schools. That was one of the recommendations from the Irish Heart Foundation. I tabled a parliamentary question afterwards. The Department could not indicate how many schools had drinking water freely available for students. There was a commitment that there would be drinking water in any new builds. That is to be commended. At the same time, every school should have it. That could be addressed by undertaking an inventory. These are the types of things we need to have in place. We also need to bear in mind another point about new builds and extensions. There need to be adequate places for food to be prepared and stored in the context of healthy eating for young people.

I have mentioned some of these points and I have no wish to delay the meeting overly. There is a need for ancillary staff, including extra caretakers. I think it was Mr. Duffy who mentioned having ancillary staff working at night. My colleague, Senator Gallagher, mentioned this as well. Within any given community there has to be better use of community buildings, including school buildings and all new builds. Thankfully, under lotto funding, schools can have partnerships with existing sporting groups. That is the way forward. It does not make sense to have a school with these facilities not in use. I appreciate there can be insurance implications, but there needs to be a system whereby a community that needs the space is able to use it. Likewise, the Department should be able to support funding for some community buildings, where required, if schools are able to use them. They should be available during daytime as well. Someone mentioned that schools were unable to use some facilities during the daytime. They must be able to use them. There has to be a better system. Again, this goes back to local councils. They are made up of public representatives and they know what is going on in the community. They have their fingers on the pulse. There needs to be more engagement there.

It was interesting to hear Mr. Curtis from the Joint Managerial Body talking about the fact that he believes cutbacks over several years have had a significant impact on voluntary school funding. Is there some suggestion that voluntary schools have been unfairly targeted? I am interested in hearing about it. Mr. Curtis spoke about the delay of the technical visits to schools. That is something that we probably need to hear more about.

Mr. Mulconry mentioned that the Department of Education and Skills does not collect data on oversubscription of schools and the number of children who have been refused places.

It is important that we capture those data, without a shadow of a doubt.

Going back to Mr. Loftus and the question as to whether the census figures are robust enough, I heard an item on Newstalk radio station this morning stating that 90,000 people moved to Ireland last year. The figure far exceeds the number of those who left. Of the 90,000, approximately 30,000 were Irish people who had been away for a few years. That is roughly equivalent to a population the size of Waterford that is not catered for in the figures. Surely we have to have more flexibility in that regard.

I spoke to Mr. Loftus previously about a group in Kildare lobbying for a second-level school, which is certainly badly needed. South Kildare Educate Together has formed a strong lobby group and would be a possible patron for a new second-level school. Three months ago, the Minister indicated that he would make an announcement within a matter of weeks. People are now scrambling for school places and we have not heard anything. I beg indulgence to ask this one constituency question.