Mr. John Murphy:

If I can respond briefly to Deputy Lahart, at a risk of repeating myself, I commend the submission made by the NBRU on the proposed changes and their effects. We did not come here today to get into that detail. The NTA will not accept an argument just because SIPTU makes it. We have tried that tack numerous times in the past when engaging with the authority. When we meet a roadblock, the NTA hides behind legislation, obligations and the Department. The NTA will not engage with us on specific routes and how they will be serviced or how social factors will be addressed to ensure people can use the bus service to meet their needs.

Mr. Jarret Walker stated that if 15% of the plan is removed, the entire plan will collapse. If BusConnects needs to collapse, it should collapse. The money needs to be provided and we cannot accept the NTA deciding to take the ball and go home because the rest of the players would not accept its game. These are the conversations we need to have. We are in favour of looking at the whole network and properly funding and protecting public transport.

As I said to the Chair earlier, I got no comfort from the NTA's view on privatisation or franchising out. I do not want to see a scenario where Bus Éireann was driven into the ground by some of the decisions and the policy made by the NTA. We are trying to get the company back on an even keel and the position is improving but there is a lot of work to be done. That should not happen to Dublin Bus, which is an iconic company. I would put it on a par with the red buses of London. People have become used to Dublin Bus serving communities. Its services have links in the communities and need to be protected. We need, however, to have the conversation on investment and how best to use that.

People with disabilities, pensioners and others who depend on bus services will not like the idea of having to reconnect from one bus or mode of transport to another. Many others, including young people in the workforce, colleges and education, will not have an issue with this. The social aspect needs to be protected and built on but we should not be afraid of the conversation.