Mr. John Murphy:

Responding to those questions, we did not take any comfort from the comments we heard from the NTA. We went through a long process with it in 2014 and 2015 when it originally announced the tendering of 10% of Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus routes. As my colleague, Mr. O'Leary, said, the NTA seems to have the wherewithal to make decisions but it is answerable to nobody. When we campaigned and lobbied the Department, the Minister and various other politicians, we got the answer that the NTA makes those decisions. When we engage with the NTA, it says that it is obliged by the Department to make such decisions. It does not seem to be answerable.

It is strange that the body designing and in charge of operating and laying out plans for future transport is also the body making decisions on who provides those services and who wins those services. I do not take comfort from what the NTA said. We hoped we would have been able to engage with it at this forum today, but perhaps we were naive to think that coming in. We are, however, seeking to engage. We believe the consultation process that takes place on any plans, whether it is BusConnects in the present format or in a changed format, needs to be widespread and to encompass the experts who deal with disabilities and free travel. SIPTU is not going to come here and say we are experts on the individual needs of various groupings of people with disabilities, old age pensioners or whoever it might be. Even if we did say it, I do not think we would be believed.

The representatives of those people need to be involved and engaged. It is no use having consultation on a one-to-one basis where individual needs are pushed to the front and the wider picture is not taken into consideration. Consultation is the important phase and we welcome that Dublin Bus is involved. As Mr. O'Leary said, my two colleagues here, who are worker directors and bus drivers, deal with people day in and day out and people identify them. People do not know the NTA, but they know Dublin Bus is providing the service. We want to see that continue but we also want to see the people providing the service having an input into how it is shaped and designed. We welcome the investment and it is badly needed.