John Dolan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the NTA. It will be important to future-proof this proposal. Not alone must it work but it must do so for many decades. It has to be something that can be built on. It is a new construct and foundation. However, it could end up not being future-proofed. I am concerned there is great pressure to conclude the project but it needs to be measured and measured again to make sure it is fully accessible to people with disabilities. The cost of not getting this right in terms of accessibility would be high.

I do not wish to be alarmist, but people with disabilities and their families have appeared before the committee and their growing sense of frustration in that regard is palpable. They understand that if they cannot use public transport or any other public service, they are being prevented from participating in the life of the country in education, employment, housing and so forth. Transport connects everything from sport to families, work, training and education. That frustration will not go without being expressed very strongly and it will not be expressed verbally. That is the sense I have of where people are. We are educating people very well and they are going to school with their colleagues, but if they cannot go somewhere after that, a price will be paid on the streets. That is my view. It must be done right.

With regard to the question about KPIs, it is unsuccessful if it is not accessible. What engagement has the NTA initiated, if any, with people with disabilities and their organisations on this project? If it has, when did it do it? What engagement has it initiated, if any, with the National Disability Authority, NDA, and, in particular, its centre of excellence in universal design? Does the NTA have an awareness of Article 9 of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, CRPD, on accessibility, which states state parties shall take appropriate measures to ensure persons with disabilities have access on an equal basis with others to the physical environment, transport and so forth? It states these measures shall include the identification and elimination of obstacles. We have an opportunity to eliminate some obstacles and barriers. Yesterday there was an invitation to engage in consultation from the NDA at which a series of complaints and issues were raised by people with disabilities. I have spoken to four of those people and two of them are in this room. The other two are not present. As they put it, without rehearsing it, there is a sense that things are going backwards. I have the same concern. How many vehicles have been built or constructed like the two bus types that were on display yesterday outside the NDA? One was a single decker and the other a double decker. To return to the NTA, has the board of the authority been advised of and/or engaged in any consideration of accessibility issues related to the project and/or its understanding and responsibilities in respect of Article 9 of the CRPD?

I have some questions about the opening statement and the comment that while most people will not need to change buses, some will. What is the approximate percentage? Has the authority considered this in the case of people with disabilities? It is an inconvenience for anybody to have to make one or two interchanges, but it is well beyond an inconvenience for somebody who has a mobility or other impairment or disability. The impact of making one or two changes is very heavy. It is not simply an inconvenience and another routine that one gets into easily enough. The statement also mentions - Senator Pádraig Ó Céidigh said this was generally a positive move - that the authority engaged Jarrett Walker & Associates from Portland, Oregon. Did it question and examine the consultants on their record concerning accessible public transport before it commissioned them for the project? What is their record in that regard?

We tend to think of the person in the wheelchair or the person who is blind, but people have a range of disabilities, some of which are hidden. They might have head injuries, different neurological conditions or intellectual disabilities. Measures such as the livery and signage being changed have an impact. Many of the people concerned have had to be briefed, walked through, coached or trained, whatever one wishes to call it, to be able to use public transport. When that is done, they can get from A to B and know their interchanges. Dublin Bus provides that support service-----