John Paul Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I agree with virtually all of what Deputy Coppinger said probably for the first time in my life. She is correct about the workload varying dramatically. It also varies even within wards in the sense that some councillors do far more than others. Some councillors do many things that are not things the taxpayer should be paying for. That does not apply to every councillor. Senator Boyhan should reserve the grunts; no one interrupted him. No one here is seeking to whitewash every councillor. Senator Boyhan can rest assured that I will not do that; he should know me well enough. Anyway, it is proper that Ms Moorehead should look at the activities that councillors conduct and decide, from a taxpayers' point of view, which activities should and should not be funded.

It is also factually correct - Senator Boyhan is a man who normally deals in facts - that councillors were surveyed last year. More than half responded. The average put in 26 or 27 hours per week. That is not Deputy Coppinger's view, my view, the view of the Chairman or of the Department. The survey was carried out in each local authority and it came back showing that councillor hours are not full time. That is not to say that some do not work full-time hours.

The workload varies dramatically as well, for example, in some of the large rural districts. I have in mind west Cork and south Kerry, where virtually half of the county of Kerry is in one electoral area. It has changed a little with the recent review of boundaries. Anyway, councillors attend events and meetings and carry out their role as representatives. This brings an extra hardship and workload in terms of travel. In west Cork, councillors may have to drive for a couple of hours to get to the monthly plenary session. There are differences between the role of councillors in urban centres and rural areas.

Deputy Coppinger raised the issue of maternity leave. The Bill approved by Cabinet this week will go before the Oireachtas next autumn. I hope the issue of maternity leave can be dealt with in it. We may need to have a discussion with the Department of Education and Skills and other Departments, probably at Cabinet level, to ensure there is some co-ordination between Departments when it comes to maternity leave. We need to ensure we do not present the image or reality to female councillors that they are not wanted or that they are supposed to be at home minding their child. That is a very old-fashioned view of the world.

Reference was made to people losing benefits. Means-tested benefits will always depend on the income coming into a house and what is deemed as income. If councillors' pay were to increase dramatically, it might mean that spouses might lose benefits. That is an issue primarily for the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection. We have no wish to see any adverse effects, for example, family members losing benefits. The job we are about relates primarily to the councillor, how to keep more people at it, how to make more people interested in running and allowing them to do the job effectively.