Victor Boyhan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for coming before us to discuss the remuneration relating to councillors. I was taken by his comment on the apathy of the general public regarding the pay and remuneration of councillors. This is an opportunity for me to place on record the fact that the representational payment is worth €16,891. This is subject to PAYE, PRSI and USC, with which I have no difficulty. That is the position and we need to send a message to the public in respect of it. Members of the public do not believe this to be the case. People I meet outside of politics tell me that there is great pay and that politicians get to go on jollies and have access to "chances", whatever they mean by that. That is how cynical people are but the reality is that we are paying our councillors a little over €16,000 each. Quite frankly, that is not good enough. Endless promises are made. I could paper the wall with the promises made by people in government to their party members. I make no secret of the fact that I circulate the agenda to people the day before every meeting of this committee. I tell them what is happening. Yesterday, I told them that the Minister of State would be here and that this matter would be up for discussion. I always invite comment. In that context, I received 12 emails before I left here at ten o'clock last night from people expressing their views. In summary, they used phrases such as "Not again", "More promises" and "What is going on?" They are frustrated. That is the effect. These people are of all parties and none and they are saying that despite all of the promises and commitments we are no further on. I would say that we are a bit further on. The Minister of State has appointed Sara Moorhead to compile a report and let us focus in on that.

I want to be positive and move forward. We need greater clarity on the timeframes. I know that it is an independent process. The Minister of State established the process and is limited in the context of his own involvement. However, councillors observing these proceedings will want to know when the process will conclude. That is important, as is the engagement with councillors. We are not clear whether the review will engage with the AILG, which has done much hard work in respect of this matter, or LAMA. If it does engage with them, how will that happen? Does the Minister of State have any indication from Ms Moorhead or her secretariat as to how they will interact with councillors?

We do not need any more analysis because we know what are the problems. Councillors need proper payment. I will go out on a limb. Some members might consider it irresponsible of me to say so but I believe councillors should be receiving €25,000 to €35,000 a year. That is a fair level of remuneration for city and county councillors. I will make a submission to Ms Moorhead if I am invited to or have the opportunity to do so because I am of the view that is the sort of money needed. Let us stop messing and thinking it is about pence. It is not a few pence or a few pounds and, as the Minister of State pointed out, councillors should not have to rely on expenses. I am talking about proper pay for the proper work they do. In other words, a fair deal for councillors.

I will shut up at this point because I do not wish to keep repeating myself. I continuously engage with sitting county councillors of all parties and none and, right across the board, they tell me that they are frustrated with the process and what they perceive to be Deputies, Ministers and Senators on a cosy old jolly in Leinster House. They want action. I am saying that I believe the right and proper remuneration package for city and county councillors must be in the range of between €28,000 and €30,000. We should work towards that and I am committed to doing so because it is right, proper and fair.

I thank the Minister of State for taking the time to attend.