Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

May I push back on that? Those two things are not mutually exclusive. According to all the data I have examined, Ireland is in the top five countries in the world where pay is concerned. There are approximately 210 countries recognised by the United Nations. If we are in the top five of approximately 210, it is fair to say that, by international comparisons, we do pay well. Ms Ní Sheaghdha is making a different point, which is the point made by Ms Clyne. Regardless of whether we pay well by international standards, there is a very small number of countries paying more. Unfortunately for us, they happen to be English-speaking countries and therefore our nurses and doctors can go to those countries and earn more money. If the pay rate in Ireland is among the top five in the world and there is a substantially higher starting salary than that of equivalently qualified people in the private sector, it is very hard to stack it up. It does not mean they do not have other options, which they clearly do. We know they do.