Gabrielle McFadden (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister and Minister of State for attending. The development of mental health services in the country is evidenced by the fact that we have a Committee on the Future of Mental Health Care and a Minister of State with responsibility for mental health. Those are very forward-thinking measures which bring mental health into the open and encourage people to talk about it, which was a goal for many members.

Money is a common theme in the discussion of mental health services. Several matters in that regard have struck me since the committee was formed. One constantly hears of the need for more money in mental health services. However, almost €1 billion has been invested in mental health services in the past year and the HSE could not tell the committee where that money was spent. Some €9 million was allocated to CHO 8, in which I live, but the representatives of the HSE could not tell me where that money went. Deputy Neville mentioned that the HSE's IT system could not allow the representatives to join the dots and give us those figures. That is absolutely outrageous.

I also inquired about funding but did not receive an answer. Funding is allocated to many different organisations and there are different services all over the country. Some counties have great services and others do not. We must consider re-organising the services and how different organisations are funded. Do similar organisations in the same county duplicate services while another county may have no organisation providing such services? How much of the funding which organisations receive goes down to the service user and how much is lost in administration, advertising, rebranding and so on? What is the HSE doing in terms of reorganising the services? I am not criticising the services because some of them do amazing work.

The recruitment and retention of staff has been discussed. On recruitment, I have mentioned to the Minister that the committee was told that 20 stages must be gone through to recruit a member of staff. That is madness. A private company would be shut down if it indulged in that sort of carry-on. The recruitment of mental healthcare staff is a challenge worldwide but the red tape in the HSE makes it particularly difficult. I raised with the Minister the case of a principal clinical psychologist who has worked in this country for 19 years and wishes to take up a job in an organisation. He had to go to the valuation unit and a solicitor and obtain transcripts from Tasmania relating to a degree he completed 25 years ago. He is still not in the position. That situation illustrates the red tape which must be dealt with. In that case, much of it was caused by administrative staff having an opinion on clinical staff. It is not good enough.

I find it difficult to accept the level of salaries paid to new consultants.

When I asked a particular question, I was completely ignored. I was told that the salary for a new consultant can range between €145,000 and €185,000. I was not given an answer when I asked how the salary compares with that attaching to the equivalent post in the UK's National Health Service, NHS. There are no front-line staff - nurses, therapists or principal clinical psychologists - who earn that type of money. We need more front-line staff and they must be paid a proper salary. We should not try to recruit people and pay them €185,000 because I do not know how anybody could deserve such a salary. People have high expectations if they think they deserve to paid that amount of money.

In terms of the assistant clinical psychology posts, I would love if the Departments of Health and Education and Skills adopted a joined-up approach to recruitment. I know from personal experience that students who have graduated from UCD and similar places with a master's degree cannot secure assistant psychology posts because they do not have experience. Ironically, they cannot gain experience because they cannot secure posts in which they might do so. That aspect should be explored. Many of the students want to pursue careers in clinical psychology but the level of intake there very low. Perhaps the two Departments might consider this matter together in order that we might eventually appoint more assistant psychologists who could be supervised by principal or senior clinical psychologists and who could help in reducing waiting lists.