Mr. John Hennebry:

Is that not another perfect example of the NDFA trying to sidestep? In respect of what the Chairman touched on, in its defence, the NDFA was happy to believe Carillion and KPMG to defend why it decided to go for this PPP decision. It is now happy that its certification is being carried out by what it says is an independent certifier who is employed to correlate. I have spoken to this certifier personally and he has been given extra money to carry out certifications as well as to just correlate so how is this guy independent if he is being given extra money to do our certifications? Those were his own words to me over the phone. How is this guy independent? I have to challenge that. If the NDFA is saying that KPMG and Carillion are not independent because of the investigation yet in its defence, it is saying this guy is independent but he is being paid, surely that is just hypocritical?