Mr. Diarmuid O'Flynn:

I thank Deputy Murphy for his support over the last number of years, his support on this and his support in the European Parliament as well because he got us hearings there. It is difficult to get information on what is happening at the moment. Deputy Michael McGrath asked a parliamentary question last year which uncovered how much had been destroyed up to now. We were speculating because sometimes one misses these reports, another €500 million has been destroyed, but one does not know it has happened. The only place where it is reported is on the RTÉ news website and in The Irish Times. That is basically a copy and paste report and it looks to me like something that has been fed out from either the Central Bank or the Department of Finance. Every time something happens, the reports are almost identical to the previous one issued.

They declare it to be almost a good news story - the Central Bank has made a profit on this IBRC wind-up note. It was declared that a profit of €150 billion went to the Exchequer because a €500 million bond was sold for €650 million or whatever. It is presented as a good news story because the country has made €150 million. What is not told is the full story and that is why I have a major problem with some media here. They talk about fake news but there is also incomplete news and that is almost as bad as fake news - in fact it can be worse. We are not told what happened to the €500 million. Let us say that the Central Bank got €650 million and it gave €150 million to the Exchequer but what happened to the €500 billion? That is never mentioned.

That €500 million is destroyed. I backed the former Governor of the Central Bank, Professor Patrick Honohan, into a corner one day when in the company of two MEPS, namely, Mr. Luke 'Ming' Flanagan - I was not working for him at the time - and Ms Nessa Childers, the late Deputy Peter Mathews, who was a brilliant friend to this campaign, and Deputy Stephen Donnelly, who should also know his finance. What Professor Honohan eventually said, when I pressed him on what happens to the money, was that the money was extinguished. That is what is happening with this money. The €31 billion was printed by the Central Bank and given to these banks. The ECB allowed this to happen but because these banks were wound up and were unable to repay that money, the aforementioned €31 billion must be taken back out of circulation.

Under the deal done by Deputy Noonan, there were ten €500 million bonds, five of which were to be sold at a rate of one per year under a new arrangement from 2014. However, with interest rates going down, these bonds were bought by the NTMA, although people are not being told this. The Central Bank is getting €650 million but it is from the NTMA so it is all borrowed money that is buying these bonds. Even the €150 million which is declared as profit is money that was borrowed by the NTMA. The €650 million is given for the €500 million and the latter is destroyed, with the rest declared as a profit for the Exchequer. All that is being reported is that we are making a profit of €150 million. It is not being reported that the transaction is circular. The €650 million becomes new debt which attracts interest and which will have to be repaid in full when the bond matures.

This country has been crying out for money over the past four years. When people such as Deputy Paul Murphy suggested that money was needed for Irish Water or to fix the hospital system, highly-paid radio presenters were asking, "Where would we get the money from?" Our Central Bank has destroyed €10.5 billion in the past four years with borrowed money. The NTMA could have used this money for other things but it, along with this Government, chose to accelerate the destruction process. People say this is computerised money but the debt is real and the interest we are paying is real, as are the suffering and deprivation of services. There is €10.5 billion or €14.4 billion still to go but this is an obscenity at a time when our services are struggling for finance.