Mr. Shane Kavanagh:

Yes. I elaborated on this earlier. We came from a mutual building society background. We did not have customers - we had members. It was all about care for the member, proper customer service and growing the membership locally. One was using trust and building on trust to build a proper steady business based on proper fiduciary rights and duties, as a person in a proper financial position to do that. Our members were made up of people who were great clients and we had a great business with them. There was nothing to stop that business continuing to this very day, but EBS wanted to change the structure and convert the business from safe products into what I regard as non-safe products. The products were okay if they were sold correctly and to the right people, but the products did not suit everybody. We were not selling shoes, we were selling complex financial products. That is the bottom line. We were not selling shoes. EBS wanted sales, sales, sales. We did not like that much.