Mr. Adam Harris:

I am going to try to address as many of those points as were relevant.

Deputy Thomas Byrne and the Chairman raised the issue of soft barriers. It is important that we examine the whole-community element. We have had the experience of families presenting at schools indicating they would like them to open an autism class or would like their children on the autism spectrum to be enrolled only to be told the school down the road is very good at that or that the school does not really do what they want. Often, it can be more subtle, however, particularly in very competitive areas. An example is league tables. The media have had very serious questions to answer in this regard since we have chosen to move people with disabilities into the mainstream school system. Every year, our definition of what constitutes a good or bad school is still based on how many people proceed to college. It is quite insulting to people who have disabilities. Quite often, it creates many soft barriers.

Until a couple of weeks ago, there was not a single secondary school offering an autism class in Dublin 2, Dublin 4, Dublin 6, Dublin 6W or Dublin 8, which essentially make up one side of the Liffey. We supported a campaign group in this regard. We really need to be educating parents whose children are not autistic in this regard. During the recession, we saw a real hardening of attitudes among those parents to the idea of a child with autism or another disability attending in class. Therefore, there is a real need to be met. While we need more autism classes, particularly at second level, I am particularly enthusiastic about making sure it is done in the correct way and that we have the community behind us when we do so.

On Deputy Catherine Martin's point on the training we provide, we have provided training right across the country to second level groups and we have had a very positive experience in that regard. We are developing this into a four-part online module for transition year this year. We plan to launch a suite of resources for primary school teachers to lead the conversation. If the Department wants to get behind the initiative, our door is certainly open.

I want to pick up on what Senator Lynn Ruane said about training. This is so important because, in sharing her story, she drew attention to the fact that we need to be mindful that this is not just about school places; it is ultimately about the whole trajectory of a person's life. At second level, unfortunately we are seeing more and more people dropping out of the school system and becoming invisible. When that takes place, we not only see a person fall out of school but also a person being cut off from the system completely and going down a particular pathway on which it can be challenging to turn around.

One of the most challenging aspects of determining what autism training should look like is that autism is sometimes counterintuitive. That is what makes it distinct from other disabilities. Often what is very good practice for a teacher in teaching most students is the worst possible thing to do with a student on the autism spectrum. A very simple example is eye contact. It might be normal to expect people who are not on the autism spectrum to make eye contact, but in order for a student who is on the autism spectrum to hear what one is saying, he or she might not be able to make eye contact. It is sometimes quite difficult for people to get their head around. Empathy is very important. This is particularly true at second level. Whatever about training just one teacher, it is important that we ensure all the teachers in the school - because we want the child to be integrated as much as possible - have a certain level of training and an understanding of some of the differences associated with interaction and behaviour.

This is linked to Senator Lynn Ruane's point on restraint. I am still quite concerned about the autism-proofing of school policies. It is still the case that families get in touch with us relatively frequently about children experiencing sensory overload or having meltdowns. That is being addressed by the school system through schools' codes of behaviour. My difficulty is we are addressing autistic people's needs is the same way we are addressing the issue of the guy smoking behind the school shed. Therefore, there is a real need to autismp-roof our policies if we are to support people properly. This extends to stimming. I have seen a lot of physical restraint used to stop people from stimming, which is an important means by which autistic people self-regulate. It should be encouraged as opposed to prevented.

The final point on which I wish to pick up is that of Deputy Funchion on the difference between supports at primary level and supports at second level. The student voice is particularly important in this context. Often as one becomes a teenager with autism, one becomes much more aware of one's differences, and one can feel much more self-conscious. I walk down the corridors of secondary schools sometimes and see posters about LGBT issues, mental health and intercultural matters but we are still not talking about autism. It can feel like a very isolating experience. Sometimes how we provide supports can highlight the person more and make him feel less comfortable. He might not want an adult sitting beside him and might not want to get called out of class to go to a resource teacher.

In the course of our work at university level, we found that many students choose not to disclose autism when they go to university or in adult life because of how they were supported at school. Therefore, we really need to start listening to how people want to be supported and to be more mindful of it.

We are very excited about the partnership we have with the Joint Managerial Body because there is so much good practice. We are hopeful that, by developing this resource, we will be able to provide a free online module at whole-school level for teachers to understand the empathy element. I hope we will be able to use this to bottle the good practice that is happening in pockets around the country and to help to make it more universal.