Dr. Tara Byrne:

I will respond to the question on participation, the need and demand for participation, measurement and how we reach people. These issues were raised in one of the other questions. Bealtaine was founded in 1995 and has grown in each of the 23 years since. It depends on the participation of more than 100,000 people living in every county in Ireland, so it is self-evident in one way. That is not said complacently but the organisation would not exist 23 years after it was founded if there was no demand. As I alluded to earlier, we carry out a survey every year.

We are required to do so, but we also want to know what people think of what we do. The results are completely overwhelming in the sense that people say things that are very personal to us. For example, they have said, "This has helped me find a sense of self," "I need more activities like this," "I came with my carer" or "I came with my son or daughter," and "it helps us to connect to go to things together." There is a strong demand for this, but, as I said, it has been around for 23 years and depends on the participation of more than 100,000 people every year.

On the issue of trying to reach people, we are in partnership with other organisations. We are in partnership with the National College of Art and Design, NCAD, in the creative life programme in Mercers Hospital that Professor Glennie mentioned. We reach people in medical settings, but we approach them in a non-medical way, as described by Ms Solon. We are in partnership with Arts and Disability Ireland in trying to create greater access for older people in general to the events we run. We are working through that network. We are in partnership with the Irish Museum of Modern Art which Ms O'Donoghue represents, as well as Age and Opportunity Ireland. That is a smattering of the hundreds of organisations with which we partner.

A key initiative is a residency programme we run in a care home setting. It has been very important. We definitely need more support for the programme. Very often care home settings are not like McAuley Place which is the standard bearer for a creative care home setting. There are many absolutely miserable care home settings. The programme is competitive. Each time we have run it - twice - there has been great upset when care homes did not win. Sometimes mass is considered to be an activity in a care home setting, as is bingo. Members can take their pick. When an artist goes into such a setting to work for two or three months, it changes completely not only the residents but also their families who see a noted change in them. The staff working in the organisations learn the importance of creativity.

On the question of measurement, as we live in a neoliberal world, in general, measurement has become quantitative. We understand the need to judge things in terms of figures. That is one way of measuring things, but it is a very poor way to measure the arts and life in general. We would all say the impact of the arts and culture is long-term. Therefore, we need a long-term measurement. The change will not happen in one day or one year. Arts and culture have a long-term impact, which is the reason it is very rich over time which changes lives. There are long-term studies and national surveys in Ireland. We all hope the arts are tied into all of the national surveys. In that context, the qualitative measurement is equally as important as the quantitative measurement. None of us has a problem with keeping figures, even though we have a very low capacity to do so. Capacity is needed to keep figures. People need to monitor them, but it is the qualitative internal change that really matters.