Ms Margharita Solon:

I will comment first and Mr. Rowntree will follow me. When we were trying to build McAuley Place originally, it took us three years to get our first planning permission. When we finally went to the relevant Department for funding, we were told that we would not get it. Our understanding was always that we would get funding once we secured planning permission. It was at that stage that we were told we were evaluated in respect of bricks and mortar. If we had gone for a greenfield site on the periphery of the town, a new building would have cost less than working in the heart of the town on a listed building. We said this was surely about more than bricks and mortar. It was about brownfield development, bringing new life into an area of the town that had not been working very well, engaging the whole community, keeping people out of nursing homes and promoting the arts as a tool for well-being. We were told, however, that we could only be evaluated in respect of bricks and mortar. The process is skewed.

It costs €25 an hour for one hour of care for an older person. We provide community-based care for older people and enabling people to remain independent in their own homes. I refer to one hour of care. There are 168 hours in a week. McAuley Place should be evaluated on what it is doing to keep older people in their own homes but engaged and connected, including intergenerationally.

I will make one more point, after which Mr. Rowntree may wish to comment. The Chairman asked about the reaction of older people to the arts. I will give a fantastic example of an older couple where the wife was instrumental in setting up adult education in Naas. As they had no children, they did not have grandchildren and were not connected with younger people. They were participating in an arts project and the gentleman was the carer for his wife. She was thrilled to see him engaged intergenerationally with all these people but he was also thrilled to see her engaged with them. The participants broke up into groups and worked with the arts facilitator. We will call this gentleman Jim, which is not his real name. He came over to me that evening and said, "You are never going to believe this but Jane came over to me and asked if I would be her partner in this project". He did not know why a primary school child would want to be connected to him. He could not believe it but the child did not see the age or connectivity or anything else. Jim's wife died and although they did not have children or grandchildren, he is still connected with the wider community. He comes to the tai chi classes in McAuley Place and has lunch in the tea rooms. I could speak of such cases for the rest of the evening.