Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 14 June 2018

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection

State Pension Reform: Discussion

10:30 am

Mr. Tim Duggan:

Colleagues from Age Action referred to Q1 average earnings figures for this year and how the SPC State pension (contributory) is €16 of that back. We would never try to index link on the basis of a quarterly return. That would be dangerous because one could end up in a situation where earnings come down. Any index linking system we devise must have a period of time in it, as well as number of elements and smoothing effects. Accordingly, it is not as simple as taking one quarter of earnings and comparing it to the State pension. It will be significantly more sophisticated than that. That is why it requires a degree of study and so forth.

Eligibility for SPC is set at 520 contributions. That has been the case since legislation was introduced in 1997. There is no change to that, even with this interim measure to deal with the 2012 rate line changes. There is no proposal to do that either. It has to be remembered that there was a period of 20 years when those numbers of contributions changed upwards over time. That was to reflect the fact that more people were in the system for much longer and that the number availing of it was increasing apace. That is fairly typical across the spectrum of EU countries.

Auto-enrolment for those earning under €20,000 is being actively looked at. We set out in the reform plan, by way of example, that €20,000 could be the floor. If something like that were to emerge, then those who earn less than that would be allowed to opt into the system. Accordingly, it would be the opposite of those over €20,000 who can only opt out. No decision has been made as Mr. Nicholson said. It is under active consideration. When the straw-man document is published, we will be seeking the definitive views of people on how we should deal with earnings of less than €20,000. We are conscious of how someone earning under €20,000 can afford to put some of their income towards a long-term savings package. At the same time, why should such people be denied an opportunity to get the employer contribution and the State incentives that will accrue from that as well? Accordingly, we want to make this as available to people on their own terms as we possibly can.

There is no doubt that a system like automatic enrolment where people will be compelled legislatively to enrol - they will be able to opt out - will require significant regulation, regardless of the model which ends up being chosen to provide for it. There will undoubtedly have to be a significant regulatory vehicle underpinning it. That is also one of the measures which will be part of the design of the system as we take it forward. One of the elements of that will be reflected in the straw-man document when we publish it.

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