Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

We are joined today by the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy.

We have restructured today’s engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland on the National Treatment Purchase Fund to deal with a matter arising out of correspondence following our meeting with the Health Service Executive and the State Claims Agency. We have asked representatives from the HSE and the State Claims Agency back to explain an apparent conflict in evidence and we will deal with this matter first. Following that, we will have a short engagement with Nursing Homes Ireland to inform our examination of the National Treatment Purchase Fund financial statements in the afternoon. We will take other business of the committee separately at an appropriate time during the meeting.

The first item on the agenda is matters relating to CervicalCheck and evidence given to the Committee of Public Accounts. We have invited representatives from the HSE and the State Claims Agency to provide clarification in respect of a contradiction in evidence given by the two bodies to the committee at our meeting of 17 May. As Chairman of the committee, and I know I speak for all of the members, I have to say that if information given to us is inaccurate or misleading, we regard it as a most serious matter. Witnesses do not give evidence just to the eight or ten people in the room but to the national Parliament on the public record while representing a State organisation. It is even more serious in this case as it relates to one of the most significant health issues we have experienced in many years. If we suspect that any witness has failed to provide accurate information to us, we will engage with him or her again until we are satisfied that we have obtained clear and correct information.

We are joined today from the HSE by Mr. John Connaghan, director general, Dr. Stephanie O'Keeffe, national director of strategic transformation and planning, Mr. John Gleeson, programme manager of CervicalCheck, Mr. Paul Connors, national director of communications, and Mr. Damien McCallion, national director of the national screening service. We are joined from the State Claims Agency by Mr. Ciarán Breen, director, Mr. Pat Kirwan, executive head of business development, Ms. Jenny Foley, solicitor and clinical claims manager, and Dr. Cathal O’Keeffe, head of clinical risk. We also have Ms Celeste O'Callaghan and Ms Mary Jackson from the Department of Health. We did ask the State Claims Agency for its legal representatives to be present but we received correspondence - No. 1376 - from Mr. Breen explaining why they are not here today. He might elaborate on this during the course of the meeting. I understand Mr. Breen is fully informed and in a position to answer all questions that would have been directed to the agency's legal representatives in any event.

I remind members, witnesses and those in the Public Gallery that all mobile phones must be completely switched off or placed on aeroplane mode.

I advise the witnesses that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to this committee. If they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and they continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise nor make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

Members are reminded of the provisions of Standing Order 186, that the committee shall refrain from inquiring into the merits of a policy of the Government or a Minister of the Government or the merits of the objectives of such policies.

While we expect witnesses to answer questions put by the committee clearly and with candour, witnesses can and should expect to be treated fairly and with respect and consideration at all times, in accordance with the witness protocol.

The committee was given clear views at the previous meeting but the matter of clarification has been mentioned. If something on the record is not correct, we want the record corrected. Clarification, expansion, further explanations and more information are not the issue. If information on the public record is not exactly right, the record must be corrected. If inaccurate information has been placed on the record, the committee will require an apology because this is the record of the national Parliament. Talking around the issue or expanding on it will not deal with the inaccurate information on the public record. I make this point clearly because witnesses often believe that if they expand on statements made at a previous meeting, it will explain the context. However, if the record is not correct, it must be corrected and appropriate action must be taken by the relevant witnesses.

I will set out what happened regarding our previous meeting with representatives of the Health Service Executive. The committee received a letter from the State Claims Agency after the meeting stating Mr. Gleeson's assertion did not accord with the facts.