John Paul Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I do not think we will ever agree about the reforms of 2014. I have a fundamental view when it comes to voting that one person one vote applies.

That applies equally in local authority areas. The situation that existed in Navan and in many towns across the country, where some people got two ballot papers and others only got one, is democratically unsustainable. I have no great difficulty with the origins of our Victorian system of town governance. I do not see a reason that we cannot integrate town governance into the broader local authority. That will mean additional funds and staff. Many Oireachtas Members have spoken to me about the issue that Deputies O'Dowd and Cassells have raised about having that structure in the municipal district of a town.

I emphasise that the terms of reference of the boundary review that is about to be completed specifically focussed on towns of 15,000 and upwards. Those towns will have their own municipal district. I have visited some local authorities where staff resources have been diverted to municipal districts, but I accept it is hit and miss throughout the county. As part of the strengthening process, we should consider increasing the staffing of municipal districts. Deputy Cassells referred to the role of the town clerk. Significant investment in staff would not be required, but it would be a good idea to have personnel to bring about a little local activity, action and management.

Deputy Cassells referred to the AILG and LAMA and the differences between what he was told and what I was told. It could not have been made clearer to me in any meetings I have had with both organisations that they oppose the reintroduction of town councils and support the beefing up of municipal districts. It was not said in a way that sent out a mixed message. The officials who are present today were with me at those meetings and it was made clear.

I refer to the relationship between the county council structure and the larger towns that used to have town councils. Part of the argument the Deputy made about Meath County Council being mired in debt whereas the town ran a surplus is a good example of why the integration of the financial resources was the correct action to take. The cost of delivering services in large rural areas, in particular, is much greater that it will ever be in a town with a dense population. We have 31 local authorities and that will be reduced by one in the next six to seven years. That is a sufficient number.