John Paul Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I am telling the Senator now. We consult regularly with those organisations and they speak on behalf of their memberships when they speak to us in formal discussions. They make the point, which was made by the Senator, that the municipal structure is working but needs to be bedded down and given more strength, powers and responsibilities. They do not want to unravel the changes that were made because they believe the new system could work better and they support that. This was the stated position of LAMA and AILG whose memberships are across the board from all political parties and groupings. We meet with them regularly for ongoing consultations.

With regard to the remuneration review for councillors, there is and will be ongoing consultation with both of the representative organisations. It is important that this happens. I have met with them on a number of occasions and will continue to do so into the future.

On the remuneration review group, we are virtually at the stage - hopefully, in the next two weeks - of completing the terms of reference under which the group will operate. There is a tic-tac process between the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the local government section on the terms of reference.

It is envisaged that there will be an independent chairman with somebody from the local government section and somebody from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and that it will consult with the representative group of councillors, the broader public service, the management association and people who are interested in local government on not just remuneration but on scoping out the role of a councillor and what it should be into the future. We are talking about taxpayers' money and value for money. We should provide significant financial support to local representatives but in pursuing local policy objectives and what local government should be about, it should not necessarily be a blank cheque. I am not saying that it has been a blank cheque up to now but there has never really been a national scoping out as to what a councillor does. As has been said, one is a priest, a doctor, an engineer or a planner. That group is due to provide at least an interim report by Hallowe'en, which will look to pegging councillors to a grade in the Civil Service. I have not resiled from that position. It is important to do so that far in advance of the local elections because people are making decisions, whether on the basis of boundaries or remuneration, as to whether they will contest local elections next year.