Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent) | Oireachtas source

There is an awful lot there. I will try to address points in the order they were made but may end up jumping around a bit. I thank everyone for contributing to this discussion. We have heard completely differing views, which is what I expected, as well as different suggestions as to how we deal with this issue. The deeper one delves into this, the more complications one finds. There are individual and property rights involved here which must not be breached. There are other issues which are simply a matter of right and wrong but above all, there are the dangers that these vehicles pose to the public, with which we must deal. While there is no single, right solution it is principally a matter of public safety. We must find a way to secure public safety, which is endangered at the moment, without causing hardship to those involved in legitimate activities, as a large number of operators undoubtedly are at the moment.

There are a lot of tangential arguments such as the drugs issue which was touched on by "Prime Time" and the article by Mr. Conor Lally which highlighted the problems which have to be recognised, and we cannot just skirt over this. If these vehicles are providing some sort of a channel for drugs, that has to be addressed and recognised and I think that any member of the Garda would say anecdotally that they are doing so because they made 157 charges in that respect. It is a difficult problem and I understand the frustration of those who say it has taken longer than it should, and they are right. It has taken too long and much longer than I intended. The day I accepted Deputy Munster's amendment I intended it to come into law there and then. It is quite unusual for a Minister to accept an amendment from the Opposition but I did it with the clear intention of sorting out this problem there and then. It became apparent over a period of a few months that it was not as simple as that and that there were real legal difficulties in what was proposed which could have ended in disaster. That is what we are trying to avoid. There have been different aspects to this as time goes on which have frustrated it. Some of them are legal, some of them are interventions elsewhere, but we will get it right and that is what is important.

Deputy Rock asked what my instinct was and because of the evidence of the NTA survey, my own experience and other evidence from many stakeholders, my instinct was that the best option at the moment, not the ultimate solution because there is no ultimate solution, is that they should not be operating, certainly not in the way they are, and the most sensible way to stop that is to prohibit them. If regulation is a more practical and not too expensive solution, we will actively consider that as well. My guess is that the majority of people in the committee are talking about regulation. I am not sure which way the Dáil would go on that but the great value of this discussion is that I do not want to introduce a measure into the Dáil which will be defeated. That is something I will not do, that would be foolishness and would frustrate the process of enhancing public safety. That is why what the committee members say today is very valuable.

I refer to the issue that Deputy Rock raised. I agree that I have to bear in mind the fact that that consultation, which involved more than 4,000 people, came in fairly decisively, 54% to 38%, that the people involved wanted these rickshaws banned. That is the reality and we have to take that into account. I take into account what Deputy Rock says and it is serious but only 38% want the status quo. That means it is urgent and it has to be done as quickly as possible. There is public dissatisfaction which is shared by members of the committee. The status quowill not stay for any longer than is necessary.

I refer to public consultation. I am not hiding that from anybody. I will have the public consultation document from the NTA circulated today or tomorrow, if that is all right for everybody. That is no problem at all.

I refer to the final question from Deputy Rock. My preferred option on balance is that there is not a continuation of what is going on at the moment and the cleanest way to do that is to ban them, but I am conscious of what Deputies Barry, Ó Snodaigh and O'Dowd said as well that there are people in legitimate employment there and it is a serious measure to take to put them out of a job because of what is going on there. Maybe they have alternatives and there are other factors at play but that is something that I am conscious of, not just because of the constitutional right to work or possible constitutional right to work but because to take people out of a job is a dramatic thing to do and not something I want to do.

I have a couple of figures here about the employees. There are around 1,000 rickshaws in Ireland. I do not know how many are in Cork but nearly all of them are in Dublin. A total of 53% of the operators said they worked part time. Full-time stood at only 15% but it is very difficult and this is one of the problems about delay, because we are working in a world of late-night activities and people who are not easy to trace. It is very difficult to get statistics and the NTA figures, which are presumably the best ones we have at the moment, are gathered in those circumstances. Those people are not working in a normal working environment so sometimes it is difficult to trace who they are and to gather information on them. Until we have information which we can rely on as credible, it would be foolish to rush into decisions and I simply will not do that, despite the frustrations of some others.

Deputy Troy wants to regulate and when he says that he blames me, the Department and others for that, which is fine. I accept that it has gone on for much longer than I wanted it to but there has not been any delay on the part of Departments. Rather it has been due to a lot of complications which I hope I have explained, one of which is that the NTA wants to regulate them and the Department wants to ban them. That is very healthy but it means that both decisions have to be considered very carefully and there is no reason that sort of debate between the NTA and the Department should not be going on.