Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I know. I have added those in. We have public information on those. They still do not add up. I would like this information presented in a table. The witnesses might come back to us next week.

Regarding the Department, obviously its officials have great respect for the HEA and all of that. They accept that the HEA has a significant role to play. I take that as given. I wish to raise the issue of the merger, or the Munster Technological University, particularly the famous minutes that never existed but did exist. I had to make them public through this process, which is absolutely infuriating and wrong in the first place. I had to ask for minutes from the HEA, which were never meant to become public, to be made public. The excuse given was not acceptable nor do I accept it. These minutes said that the absolute overwhelming majority opinion, the almost unanimous view, was that this should not go ahead. Policy is a matter for the Government and for Ministers. That is fine. As a former Minister I understand that. However, viewing this matter from the perspective of the Department, I presume its officials basically just dismiss the HEA when they do not agree with it.