Mr. Ivan Cooper:

I work with The Wheel, the national association of community and voluntary organisations. As Mr. Boland indicated, we are an association of charities and the last thing we want to do is invest time in trying to understand the complexities and vagaries of the insurance market and how it operates. The issue is so severe that The Wheel asked me to leave a conference to come along and tell members about what is going on. A crisis in communities is coming with insurance costs. The Senator asked about immediate insurance rises-----