Victor Boyhan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank everybody for coming here this morning. I will keep my comments and questions very focused on what we are dealing with today, namely, examining local authority housing waiting lists. When I looked at this, the first thing that came to mind was transparency because a lot of people on our housing lists cannot understand the inconsistencies. I have one question for Ms Hurley. We see her all the time so I will stay fairly focused. She had it right there when she spoke about a common methodology across the 31 local authorities. My experience is that it is different all over the place. I will not cite particular councils because they are not here, that would not be fair and I do not want to misinterpret my understanding of these local authorities. Some local authorities have a numbering system.

Dún-Laoghaire-Rathdown is the one with which I would be most familiar. People can ring in and say they are "X" and are told what number they are on. I know there are always deciding factors. One can never tell anyone where one will be but one has a sense of what one is about. There are other local authorities where someone can ring up and be told something different three times in the one week. They have no number so the person has no allocation number. We have heard anecdotal evidence of political patronage and I know the CCMA and the witnesses have mentioned it. There is a perception that if one knows someone politically, it helps one. Politicians have fed into this and I will be critical of politicians when I say that. They are being entertained in pubs, clubs and various places where people have meetings or clinics and are being told: "I'll put in a word for you." That is grossly unfair but that is what people go away thinking. They decide to do the rounds so they hawk the kids around to three clinics of three different politicians on Saturday morning because they think they have nothing to lose, it might get them a way up and the politicians might show them great understanding and might have a relationship with the housing manager. I am not saying this happens because I do not believe it does happen. I think that is worth saying. I think it is all above board but people must have confidence that it is above board and it must be transparent. I am very familiar with the National Treatment Purchase Fund and how it had to tackle waiting lists because I was a director there. I consider that to be the same issue. It is about data, embracing technology and putting systems in place. Would the witnesses or the CCMA look at the possibility of adopting a standardised electronic process where once the application has been judged valid, each individual could access a central register on a IT system, key in their independent identification number and be able to see where they are because there is nothing more soul-destroying than people coming and saying they thought they were number 20 but have now discovered they are number 40? Accountability is an issue. I think it is to protect the staff and everyone against accusations or suggestions that there was something below board. Transparency must be the key message coming from our deliberations here today.

I will go into the question of data but there are all sorts of different data. I circulated a bit of data relating to councils around the country last week. I was quite amazed by the responses I got. They are all in writing and I have them all so I can show them to anyone who wants to see them. They disputed these figures whether they related to the delivery of housing, the lists, how many people are on them and the categories they are in. That is another day's work but that feeds into all this. I think the more data we have and the more we embrace technology, the better because it is really important.

I have a few points to raise with the CCMA. The witnesses from the CCMA talk about a standardised process being unable to react to exceptional circumstances. I am advocating a standardised process but I do accept there is that variance. Ms Holohan might comment on that. I touched on political representations. She talks about political representations and how the role of advocates needs to be clarified and transparently managed and I agree with her. We need a protocol around that in terms of Oireachtas Members. Some councils will ask one to present a letter of authority because in many cases, politicians are making representations where they do not always have the authority. I agree with Ms Holohan. I think that is a really positive thing. We need a standard protocol around the entire country in respect of that.

With regard to people aged 55 and over specifically categorised for accommodation, should we look at pushing that out to 60? I think we should but, again, I acknowledge that each local authority adopts its own scheme. It is a reserved function and I am loath to interfere with reserved functions. They have very few of them and this is one of them. Perhaps the witnesses might give us some commentary on that.

Can it be confirmed that Placefinder is operating everywhere? It should be rolled to all 31 local authorities. On the one hand, there is a balance between the Department coming the heavy on councils and councils being undermined. There is an issue of balance there. When we decide on policy, and Placefinder is a good one, we need progress on that. Could we have a list of choice-based lettings, particularly in respect of Kilkenny, Dún Laoghaire and Carlow because the three individuals are here. Could the witnesses tell us their intentions regarding choice-based letting because that is really important? I have dealt with the issue of transparency.

Threshold made a really good submission. I think the witnesses spoke in great detail about single people being discriminated against. This is the case. I spoke to a man from Rathmines who has been on housing list for 17 years. He had been in Dún Laoghaire. He discovered he was on two lists, which he should not have been, so he looked at the options and found that Dublin City Council and Rathmines represented the better option for him when it came to getting accommodation so he is now solely on that list. He told me that he had been told by officials that he will have to wait another few years and that then he will get the accommodation by virtue of his age. That is a terrible thing to have to say.

I thought the point made by the witnesses from Threshold was a really good one. In Housing Law, Rights and Policy, Padraic Kenna writes that:

There is a widespread assumption (whether justified or not) that the allocation of Local Authority housing has been part of the local political patronage or clientelist network of Ireland. The absence of a national, transparent accessible and objective system of managing waiting lists and allocating homes has fuelled this view.

I will leave it at that. I think that is the challenge. We need a proper transparent process that can be independently validated and that gives people confidence in the scheme.