Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

-----for the people watching.

I asked earlier about the 209 and the trend in the audit. There were catastrophic differences between P2s and P9s. Given the witnesses' professional expertise, I ask whether a quality audit should have been carried out by the HSE. I ask all six witnesses for a "Yes" or "No" answer at the end. I am not trying to catch anyone out. I just want the professional opinion of the witnesses, given that we now know about these catastrophic changes. I have seen a few audit reports, including one where there were four errors in a row and then there was a catastrophic change. I have it here. It is redacted but it showed me something.

My next question is about Professor Gráinne Flannelly. She was on "Morning Ireland" on 27 April 2018 and the figures have been repeated so I am not going to go through them. I refer to the figure of 1,482 cases. It breaks down that 277 were reviewed. There was no change in 71 and we ended up with the 209 figure. That shows that 75% of the 277 cases were misread. In light of that, do the witnesses believe - given the percentages - that there was a need for some random sampling of normal smears to establish whether the level of accuracy underpinning the whole programme was working?

My next question concerns the audit process methodology which we have received. The witnesses will have seen the Outcomes of audits between 2008 to 2015 document. There are levels one to six. Diagnosis after a previous smear that recommended repeat cytology is No. 5 at 11%. It says to review some cases. The word "some" has been troubling me. That means that some were reviewed and some were not. How, scientifically, was that done? How are some picked and not others?

My last question relates to the HPV test into the future. This is important to me and I raised it in the Dáil weeks ago. There is no way in hell that the witnesses will be able to do these tests without receiving huge resources quickly. Human resources are going to take time and the witnesses have explained eloquently why that is. Laboratories need changes and IT needs upgrading. I am a big eHealth person. What needs to be done and what is the quickest timeframe in which it could be done? I was quick as I could be. I ask the witnesses to start with the first question.