Mr. Kieran Grace:

In regard to, say, Coldplay or U2, the upset and hurt caused to a person who wants to go to those concerts and does not get a ticket is very personal. There is a personal attachment to the band. They want to go to a concert because they are a fan. We are not understating that whatsoever.

The role we have is to try to get evidence together, go to the Minister and give advice on what might or might not be done. In that context, we try to scope the extent of the problem and by focusing on the problem, one can better focus on action. If we take a sledgehammer to it and then find we only needed a hammer, that can have unintended consequences.

The point of the consultation and getting the various data together was to identify the issue, the critical points and how we can deal with them effectively to solve the problem where it occurs. In many cases, there have been accusations that the system has taken too much of a blockbuster approach to something when in a more limited, targeted approach might have been better. We are trying to get that data and information together and, if a proposal comes forward, identify how we can target the issue to make sure it is effectively targeted.

The enforcement of any of these issues has to be targeted as well. There is no point in diluting the enforcement power. The Deputy's Bill has reference to the Garda. Where something has happened to the detriment of one person relating to a small gig, we do not want to dilute the power of the gardaí. We would be better off focusing on the major events. Events in Europe, for example, are attended by more than 300 people. That is what the Deputy is suggesting. If one person calls the Garda, is that a proper form of enforcement if thousands of people are being affected at another event?

The impact on the State relates to how we effectively enforce it. The Deputy spoke about sending a message in his contribution. Sending a message to hammer home a small issue may not be as effective as hammering the issue where there is major detriment.

I meant to refer earlier to the bots and the industrial-type harvesting of tickets. They are prevalent in the United States and they are used somewhat in the United Kingdom. There is no evidence that they are used here. However, that does not mean that we should ignore consideration of outlawing their usage to prevent this harvesting down the road. It arose in a tangential way in the consultation process. In the US, where the secondary market is almost de rigueur, bots are a profitable exercise because of the size of the market. The Irish market is relatively small and to invest in such infrastructure may not be cost effective.