Gerard Craughwell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the representatives for attending and I thank Councillor Murphy for leading the Irish delegation. I am sure he has left his colleagues in no doubt as to what to expect.

There was a question earlier about the cross-Border institutions.

Our waterways are managed from the North of Ireland. Consider feeding one's cattle in the top field in the North of Ireland in the morning and moving them to the bottom field in the South in the afternoon. Consider having breakfast in one's kitchen in Northern Ireland and watching the television in one's sitting room in the South. This is the reality of the Irish Border. It is probably one of the most unique borders in the world. There are many cross-management units taking place in respect of utilities and the sharing of the management of how the country is run. The witnesses will get a flavour of this. I am sure Councillor Murphy has left them in no doubt as to what to expect. The regions and their management are extremely important. It was interesting that Councillor Murphy referred to the awareness that exists in Tipperary, how that awareness does not exist across the entire country and how different regions have different views. In truth, unless there is a trading relationship with Britain or a working relationship with Northern Ireland, the Border with the latter will really just be something we think about but which does not really bother us once a line is drawn across the map south of Dublin and Galway, except for agricultural areas that are deeply involved in the British market. I am glad that Tipperary is taking a lead on this and I hope Kerry, Cork, etc., will follow.

I agree with Deputy Durkan. Last-minute negotiations scare the hell out of me. The last thing we need is someone saying at 1 o'clock in the morning, "Lads, we will never get to bed if we do not agree something, so let us agree." As a cohesive unit, Europe has worked really well until now to ensure we all stay on the same pitch playing the same game all the time. It is really encouraging to see the witnesses from the regions here and concerned about our Border. In truth, we are a tiny part of Europe - our Border is an even tinier part - but the witnesses are here, they want to see it for themselves and they want to be familiar with what the impact will be. I therefore commend the president on bringing his team here.

One extremely important thing is the trading relationship that exists today between the European Union on the continent of Europe and Ireland, as against the future post-Brexit. We no longer have direct access to Europe. The moment Brexit is finally negotiated, we must travel through a third country, Britain, or we must build ports that will allow us to have direct access to Europe. Not only will this cause a major logistical problem, but it will also require significant investment. I know Councillor Murphy is based in the south east and knows what I am talking about when I refer to Rosslare and Waterford. If we are going to have to develop these ports, it will cost billions. Regarding the time delays and the cost of shipping via the long route as against shipping across England, we have spoken with British local authorities, particularly in Wales and down along the southern coast with Europe, in Dover and other such places. There will be tens of miles of trucks backed up to get customs clearance coming in and going back out. We have companies in Ireland that deliver sensitive materials - for example, the pharmaceutical industry. Coca-Cola is another example that comes to mind. Raw materials for Coca-Cola for Europe are shipped from Ballina. If the truck transporting those raw materials is opened anywhere between the point of origin and the point of destination, the entire content must come back, so we have problems there. These are the micro problems. An individual truck driver with tens of thousands of euro worth of pharmaceuticals driving through the UK can be stopped and have his truck opened and searched at any stage. If that happens, the truck must come back. That is one of the difficulties.

We speak about peace and the peace process, the peace process in the European project and the peace process in Northern Ireland. I will separate them out briefly. Nigel Lawson, the great British politician, was on the radio yesterday morning. He said the European community and the European Union have contributed nothing to peace. He is living in France, by the way, which is rather ironic. He inferred that in the Northern Irish peace process, the British beat the IRA and that is it, it is all over, thank you very much indeed. I think most of us agree that is not really what happened. In Europe, the Germans got tired of fighting, according to Mr. Lawson, and wanted to get involved in commercial activities. This is not exactly the peace process I know or the one the witnesses know. I am a little concerned about the disunity in the British Cabinet and among the British people in general. I do not know whether Councillor Murphy will get an opportunity to meet any of the civic groups in Northern Ireland, but I have been engaging quite a lot with them in recent months, and it is amazing to see the disjoint that exists between them and their political masters. These are people who just want to live, work and get on with life. Politics is years behind where the people are. If the councillor gets a chance, he might introduce people to some of the civic groups up there. That would be interesting.

I would like to know what engagement there has been between national parliaments and the European Committee of the Regions. Have each of the national parliaments taken time to meet with the committee, to explain their positions and to listen to what the European Committee of the Regions has to say about the future of Europe? I am anxious to know whether the committee has met with Michel Barnier and had an opportunity to put its case to him.

No one wants a hard border. That is what we are told. Britain does not want one, Northern Ireland does not want one, we do not want one and the European Union does not want one. What if, ultimately, the Brits turn around and say they do not care, that we can drive across the Border and back again any time we want, that they are really not interested and that we can fire away? Then we would have an open border with a third country. While that would suit Ireland quite well, how would the European Union look at the prospect of 40 ft trailers travelling from Scotland to Belfast, driving down the country and heading back out through Rosslare or Dublin to the European Union? Is there a likelihood the European Union will enforce a border that neither Ireland nor Britain wants, in the witnesses' view?

We are great in this country at telling people what we need and want and how desperate things are. I would love to know whether there is anything Ireland can do to assist the witnesses from each of the regions with what they want from Brexit. We are always asking for what we need. We would like to hear what other people need as well because we are a community that must work together and find common ground against what is a horrendous mistake.