Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

That saved me some time, I was going to put the same question. Mr. Connaghan saw what transpired there. If that has not told him a lot, I do not know what will. The difference between Mr. Gleeson and Dr. O'Keeffe is that Mr. Gleeson said "sorry". He apologised. I hate to say this to Dr. O'Keeffe but I do not believe that anyone watching this would have confidence that she did her job properly. She said that she "assumed", she used the word "think", and said that there was a reliance on the staff. I presume Mr. Gleeson is part of that. We saw the State Claims Agency cases coming through. For over two and a quarter years, as the Chair has outlined, Dr. O'Keeffe did not once probe it. For me, that is at the absolute nub of what is going on here.

Let me explain something to Dr. O'Keeffe. We are politicians. We are not clinicians. Some of us have medically-orientated qualifications - I refer to my colleague on the left. If there was an iota of a mention of this issue in anything to do with the Department of Health, the Minister for Health, Deputy Simon Harris, would be out of a job. Deputy Leo Varadkar would probably not be Taoiseach. That is the likelihood of where we would end up. This is transfixing the nation. People are absolutely appalled and disgusted. Pick whatever word one chooses.

For over two and a quarter years, or whatever timeframe one desires, there was a catastrophic failure in CervicalCheck at management level, and possibly at other levels, and Dr. O'Keeffe has not even said sorry. She has not apologised. It is not good enough to say that she assumed. It not good enough to say that she relied on legal cases. It should have been probed. It should have been dealt with. It should have been a monthly issue and an issue that was constantly referred to on and on and on again.

I have gone through all the documentation, probably more than most. I could write a book on it. I have so many documents now that I am in information overload. There is no way I can see any justification for this. There is no way in which Vicky, Stephen and the others can get any comfort from anything that Dr. O'Keeffe has said or from any of the processes that were in place. In respect of Mr. Gleeson, I am wondering how this makes him feel. Dr. O'Keeffe feels that she has been let down. I do not know what way that makes Mr. Gleeson feel. He works for her obviously. Does he feel that he has let her down? In fairness, at least he apologised. Does Mr. Gleeson feel that he did his job but people did not listen or does he feel that-----