Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent) | Oireachtas source

While I recognise that some regulations must be in place I question where they are going. They have gone way over the top here. It is a heavy-handed set-up. That does not mean people are being over-rude as such. One is not talking to anybody but one gets a letter. I was given a letter the other day from a community voluntary organisation in which the organisation was told it did not comply. The members are elderly and had left it to an accountant. Many of them in that situation are doing what Deputy Ó Cuív said. They are just walking away and saying, "To hell with it, volunteerism is a joke". However, the letter told them that if they did not comply, they faced a fine of €300,000 or jail. In the name of God, where have we gone? These are voluntary people in the community and not one of them has ever taken a brown cent home. They might have misread a letter and did not respond or whatever, but where are we going with a fine of €300,000 or jail? It is dictatorial talk.

I questioned members of voluntary groups - I do not know their correct title. Quite a number of voluntary groups have said, "Look, we had €6,000, €2,000 or €9,000 in the account but we have had it. We are gone, off the pitch. We are not taking this hassle anymore." They collected for a certain cause and left the money in the account because something similar to it might arise again. Then they would have gone back out to do the walk or whatever. I asked where that money went because it was never clear to me where it went, but it was taken back into the system and poured back out. Take the example of a group in Castletownbere. The money, €8,000, was taken back because the group could not comply with the rules or did not want to get into that hassle because they are 70, 80 or 90 years of age. That money should have gone back into Castletownbere or into the area where it was taken from, but instead it has gone into a system and nobody seems to know where is that system. Perhaps the Minister could provide me with that detail. The bottom line is that we are killing off volunteerism. That is the last thing that should be done. Every effort should be made to support the voluntary sector and the men and women who are out day and night, and especially late at night, trying to do the job properly.

I was in about 20 voluntary organisations but some of them have disbanded because of this. I am in one organisation that pays €3,500 for insurance. It is a voluntary organisation and nobody is taking home a brown cent from it. I do not know how many thousand we are paying in accountancy fees but it is approximately €5,000. We are totally dependent on a lottery we conduct every week. It is a successful lottery because I and other members of the committee are out every Saturday night selling tickets. It is €1.50 for a ticket and €5 for four tickets. That is our survival. To comply with everything, we will soon have to have solicitors and accountants around the table when we are talking, instead of getting on with the duties and the work we want to do. We are trying to be compliant. We also have to be vetted by the Garda. One must be vetted because one is on the community council. If I am driving the bus to bring people into the social centre, I must be vetted by the Garda for that as well, yet I am in the same organisation. What the hell is wrong? A is not talking to B at all. There is a lot of Garda vetting and fooling around, but the work we should be doing on the ground is not getting done because we are trying to comply with rules and regulations. If we do not, we will get into a heap of trouble.

First, I wish to find out where this money is gone. If it is gone out of a rural community, it should not have been taken from that community. It was collected genuinely and held in an account. It should have been given back to that community and redistributed to the organisations that ticked the boxes. However, the boxes are getting harder and harder. Of the 20 voluntary groups I was involved with, there are only nine or ten left. Ten are gone because they could not comply with the rules. The Minister will say that there has to be some type of control, but there must be a reasonable effort to keep groups in operation. Stop sending out letters about €300,000 fines. I had to stop that letter going to the rest of the committee because I would have been attending a few funerals due to the fright some of them would have got. They are all genuine honest people. If they saw the words "€300,000" and "jail" on a letter, they would have finished the organisation which has delivered a great deal for the community.