Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Deputy Collins asked a question about small farmers. He is quite correct: farmers have had a very difficult year - a difficult few years. SICAP includes a scheme for low-income householders, which would include farmers, so they are targeted as well. There should and can be a scheme for them. As for the issue Deputy Collins raised regarding the CSP, I note the valid point he makes about groups that have redundancies or staff who might be leaving and that must find that money for them. The problem with the CSP is that the Department only makes a contribution. We only meet the cost of the staffing and the management. We are not the employers. The employers are the groups themselves. I understand this can and does cause a difficulty. As we go along, we are monitoring all these schemes and trying to see what we can do to improve them.

The Chairman also raised the CSP and the issue of other new groups coming in. He is quite correct: €46 million in funding is provided for budget 2018. Part of the difficulty we have is that, while I think we had an extra €1 million this year, we have brought in some new groups but we are also reviewing existing schemes. I must be very careful to get new people in. We must take people out of the scheme. Something we are doing at present is carrying out a review of the CSP. I need to deal with a situation I now see arising. Pobal administers the scheme for me. We make the rules and regulations and the guidelines. I need to start looking at guidelines, particularly for real social enterprises that are doing well and get the few years of support from this scheme. They should move on and let other groups in, but a review has been done of some of the groups that are not really social enterprises but are doing very good community work. I need to be very careful. This is something I am talking to my officials about, and they are very wary of it as well. They are very supportive of these schemes and they accept that we need to look at ways and means of dealing with groups that may not be social enterprises. The Revenue Commissioners may not be there for them to keep them in the CSP, but if they are doing a community service and a service the State is not able to provide, they should be supported. If these communities do not provide that service for those people, they will not have a service, so I need to get that right. The CSP, as I said, is working very well. We supported more than 2,000 jobs last year, there were 1,670 employees, we have 306 managers and we support 400 organisations. The scheme is working, but the Chairman asked a very valid question. I am having reviews carried out and I would like to let new people in. I do not want groups coming out because they do not meet the social enterprise criteria. I need to categorise them. To be fair to Pobal, it administers the scheme and the rules and regulations as we set them out. I must be careful about the new rules and regulations and the guidelines that I set for the future. If there is a social need there, I want to ensure it is met. If it is being met by voluntary groups that are supported by this programme, I must ensure they are supported. They are not social enterprises. On the other hand - and Deputy Collins will understand this as someone who is very much involved in the social enterprise sector, if the social enterprises are doing very well and are getting State funding, sometimes they do not want to come off that funding even though they might have a fair balance on their books. We must have a little fairness in the system. I need new groups coming in, we need new ideas and we need to give other people a chance. However, at the same time, if social enterprises are doing well and they can go out there and raise their own money, we should give them the start, the help and the support they need. However, they must also think about the next groups that want to get in to get the start, the help and the funding they need.