Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

On the section 38 and section 39 organisations, the opening point made by Senator Dolan about the relationship between the State and the voluntary sector is very important. He will recall that I established the Dr. Catherine Day group, which is doing very good work. Dr. Day is very eminent in her understanding of governance structures and the like, and she is ably assisted by Professor Jane Grimson and Professor Deirdre Madden. I expect the group to report this year. It will give us an interesting roadmap for what the relationship should be between the voluntary sector and the State sector in terms of health and social care services in the 21st century. I am looking forward to receiving that body of work.

The Senator does not need me to use up time explaining the difference between section 38 and section 39 organisations. He understands it very well.

We have put in place a process to develop a deeper understanding of the funding position of these grant-aided organisations. The HSE has been asked to engage with section 39 organisations to establish in the first instance the facts regarding what cuts were applied and how and when they were implemented. They are not all the same; that is the challenge. Representatives of section 39 organisations will tell one different things. Some will say they made the cuts from their own resources while others will say they did not. Some have very genuine and real challenges with recruitment and retention in a more competitive employment market. We are expecting an interim report from the HSE very shortly. This will inform the Government's thinking and possible solutions.