Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the departmental officials for coming here and for their presentation. In her opening statement, Ms O'Loughlin stated "The objective of this report is to create a space in the budget process for performance dialogue, focusing on results delivered from public expenditure in terms of outputs and impacts." I can see the outputs in the report but not the impacts. Let us look at the segment in the report dedicated to health. On pages 11 to 13, inclusive, there is reference, using a plus or minus symbol, to additional services, hours, money or whatever that have been provided. There is no reference to whether demographics have been considered or whether there has been an increase in the number of people requiring those services. The data do not show the impact that the extra or reduced spend has had on the service user or who has been impacted by the services.

We have been told that there has been increased expenditure on mental health services. Let us consider the figures for the child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS. If one looks at the top of page 15 one will see the first tabular statement, with the heading, "Mental Health Services". In the third column of the second row, one will see the heading "CAMHS referrals seen by Mental Health Services" and the figures show that the number of people has been reduced by 2,082 when compared with last year's figure.

I agree with Deputies Boyd Barrett and Cowen that we can use the information contained in the report. The information will allow us to probe further but it does not tell us, as a budget committee, the impact of extra expenditure or, conversely, reduced expenditure. I am interested in hearing the thoughts of the officials on how we can improve the report. What other work can the Department do to provide us with more detailed information? More information would allow us to assess whether budgetary decisions have worked and I mean in terms of putting money into different areas. We have heard from the budget office in Scotland, which has a slightly different name but which has done this work for quite some time. It advised that we need to build in time for reflection and to evaluate past performance. We need to assess the impact and effect our decisions are having. Can the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform play a role in that? Can this report be improved? Do we need to conduct a separate body of work to assess impact? It is incorrect to suggest that this report has provided any sort of analysis or information on impact.

My final point will follow on from what Deputy Cowen said about the State Claims Agency and the National Treasury Management Agency, NTMA. The Department has claimed it has no involvement or connection with the NTMA. Am I correct?