Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank each of the delegates for his and her contribution. We are playing catch-up in this area as we have an ageing population. Even in my area of Fingal which has a young population in parts there are towns with an ageing population. I want to focus on the supply of houses and what we can do to plan suitable housing for the age cohorts. I have specific questions for the Department of Health that are related to the housing adaptation grants scheme. How does the HSE prioritise applications for housing adaptation grants based on need? We have all come across people who remain in hospital because their home has not been adapted and they cannot be discharged. If the medical need has been identified in so far as the patient cannot be discharged because works such as the installation of a shower or wetroom or whatever else may be required in the home have not been undertaken, it does not make any sense to me that a direction is not being given for the work to be done. The Department of Health will probably need the assistance of the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government to do that, but we should look at this solution and actually do it.

I wish to elicit information from the HSE on occupational therapy reports. What is the average turnaround time to process a needs assessment or an occupational therapy report? Again, to avail of a housing adaptation grant, that is required. The occupational therapist needs to go into a house to see what is needed to allow Mr. Darragh O'Brien to be discharged from hospital and live independently. The position varies from county to county and also from area to area in a local authority. If we want to do some practical things, without the need for a conference or the relaunch of a programme, let us see what we can do on the ground. Does either Mr. Redmond or Ms Spillane believe we have sufficient occupational therapists in each area in an ageing Ireland to process all of the work required? Is there another way to do it? Could it be done privately and paid for by the Department or do we have to wait for HSE-appointed occupational therapists to complete the reports? I know that this is a major problem.

I was very glad when Mr. Tynan mentioned, on behalf of Mr. O'Mahony, that "downsizing" was not a bad word. It has become a bad word because of the hamfisted way in which housing for the elderly has been approached in some, but not all, instances, particularly when people are described as bed blockers which makes them feel bad about being in hospital or when the Government makes announcements that there are 900,000 more family homes than families which make elderly people or those in the seniors category feel that they should be getting out of the family home, the house for which they have paid. One of the reasons 89% of people want to remain in their own home is there are no alternatives. If there were alternatives and choices, people would look at the options. I speak for my own parents, seniors who have recently downsized. It was not a bad word for them. It has actually made a lot of sense for them.

Before I turn my attention to the contributions of the Departments of Health and Housing, Planning and Local Government, in its contribution the RIAI stated: "However there are no options for those who are above the financial thresholds to access social housing but who do not have sufficient means to support their older age accommodation needs".

That is blindingly clear to everyone. What would the representatives from the RIAI do to address that problem? Would they insist on it being provided for in development plans by local authorities?

Mixed unit developments are of importance. Where is it being done well? I have seen a couple of places where it has been done well. The apartments in those schemes have not been designated specifically for elderly people and I do not think that should be the case. There should be a mix of duplexes, semi-detached houses and apartments in open settings which allow people to see others. I am fortunate to know of such areas and the developments work very well. Having a community mix is also of great importance. What three things do the representatives from the RIAI think are doable relatively quickly?

I thank Ms Hurley for her statement. I am struck by the fact that the delivery of social housing and housing for the elderly is very important and may be the focus of the Department. There was discussion of a couple of semi-independent living schemes. On the housing mix in local authority or social housing estates, is the Department setting the mix to be used in new estates being delivered? I know of such estates in my area of Fingal. Is the Department stating 10% or 15% of units are to be set aside and that it will design them for life such that they can be used by young families, elderly people or those in the middle? What directions is it giving through the planning and possibly building control elements and also to approved housing bodies? I have seen a couple of magnificent schemes delivered by the St. Vincent de Paul housing trust. One such scheme in my town of Malahide, St. Benedict's, is being extended. Is the Department aware of the level of demand for the extra 16 units? There are hundreds of people looking for them. That puts the housing association and the local authority in a difficult position where they will have to make a Solomon's choice between persons who are desperate to access housing. What do the delegates think we should be delivering per annum and how does it compare to the actual targets set?

Ms Hurley mentioned the joint statement, which is important. Without giving us a sneak preview, what will it state? What is the Department's objective in real terms and will it be backed up by policy? I am sure a report will accompany the statement. Reports are welcome, but more important are the actions contained therein. I am jumping back and forth, but I will try to stay within the five minutes allocated to me.

In terms of the HSE's perspective, does the Department have statistics for the numbers of elderly people in inappropriate accommodation such as long-stay or other beds in hospitals because their homes are not appropriate for them or they are waiting for occupational therapy reports to receive housing adaptation grants? Does the Department track that information for each local authority such that it can identify what the council in, for example, Fingal or Roscommon is doing, what the turnaround time is and how it can be driven through? Like Deputy Fergus O'Dowd, it is welcome that €62 million has been made available, an increase of 11%, but what are we getting for it? Is the service improving?

Is there a local authority to which Ms Hurley would look in terms of best practice in the provision of private and public housing? Will Mr. Tynan and Mr. O'Mahoney also offer their views in that regard? There probably is not; there is not. Perhaps the delegates might identify the best of a bad bunch, without being unfair to anyone. I do not wish to be unfair and did not mean my last comment. Where is there a better focus on trying to deliver a proper housing mix?

The delegates have provided figures for increased densities in existing areas and making them into communities. There is a role for local and other politicians in that regard because if one tries to increase densities anywhere, there will be a furore among existing residents who will say it cannot happen because a lovely field would be lost or they like the car park or because of some other issue. It is about having a proper mix and people getting real.

Like every aspect of housing, these are ticking time bombs. I hate to say this two weeks in a row, but they are. We can, however, deal with this with proper planning and design. I would love to know if the Department is instructing local authorities for private developments. We have to be able to look for more mixed developments and more whole of life developments. Are we going to instruct the local authorities by way of planning guidelines for when they put together their local development plans and their planning bibles to say "this is what you must do"? The private sector will have a major role in this. The Department will not solve it by delivery of social housing. There are people who have already paid for their three or four bedroom family home who do not want to be there anymore. They will stay there, however, because there is nowhere else for them to go.